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AgentM
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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 Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Epicurus wrote: |
In certain ways it's almost commendable that they don't by into the Western modern day "fairy tales", but in other ways my Western "values" can't help but leave me a little sad. I guess despite my cynicism I am stil somewhat of a romantic at heart.  |
I think that's sad too. I would certainly want a woman to want me for who I am, not for whatever riches I might have (not that I'll ever likely be that rich anyways)...hopefully most Korean women aren't that materialistic! |
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tomoyopop
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hm. I don't know how long you two have been dating... but if there were tears, I'm guessing for an extended period of time. That, or she's a very idealistic type.
One thing you should know is that Koreans are MUCH more willing to say "I love you" and talk about the usually taboo subject of marriage (in the Western world at least) at an earlier stage than Western couples do. For example, one week after my Korean boyfriend and I started a relationship, he said, "I love you" to me, and I FREAKED OUT mentally. I just said, "Uh... thanks ^^;" I then scurried over to my Korean girl friend as fast as possible and asked her if this was normal behavior, and she said, "Yeah" very matter-of-factly. I slowly got used to it, but made sure I didn't say it to him until I really felt it.
Also, about a month into our relationship, he started talking about marriage; like, hypothesizing about how he would come home from his office job, and then we would go grocery-shopping then cook dinner, discuss if we would have an apartment or a house, blah blah blah. He started calling me "wifey" and all that around the same time, and does it often. I'm used to it now, and think it's kinda cute in some weird way. This is also apparently common in Korean relationships; just watch any drama and you'll have your proof. The Western side of me just chuckles nervously at it.
The thing is, I really love him. However, we both don't know what the future will hold, but it seems that in Korean culture, even if the future is vague, the topic of marriage is freely discussed, no matter how long ago your relationship started. Just an FYI. |
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Emeliu
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Location: Korea, i'm OMW
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| tomoyopop wrote: |
Hm. I don't know how long you two have been dating... but if there were tears, I'm guessing for an extended period of time. That, or she's a very idealistic type.
One thing you should know is that Koreans are MUCH more willing to say "I love you" and talk about the usually taboo subject of marriage (in the Western world at least) at an earlier stage than Western couples do. For example, one week after my Korean boyfriend and I started a relationship, he said, "I love you" to me, and I FREAKED OUT mentally. I just said, "Uh... thanks ^^;" I then scurried over to my Korean girl friend as fast as possible and asked her if this was normal behavior, and she said, "Yeah" very matter-of-factly. I slowly got used to it, but made sure I didn't say it to him until I really felt it.
Also, about a month into our relationship, he started talking about marriage; like, hypothesizing about how he would come home from his office job, and then we would go grocery-shopping then cook dinner, discuss if we would have an apartment or a house, blah blah blah. He started calling me "wifey" and all that around the same time, and does it often. I'm used to it now, and think it's kinda cute in some weird way. This is also apparently common in Korean relationships; just watch any drama and you'll have your proof. The Western side of me just chuckles nervously at it.
The thing is, I really love him. However, we both don't know what the future will hold, but it seems that in Korean culture, even if the future is vague, the topic of marriage is freely discussed, no matter how long ago your relationship started. Just an FYI. |
Same thing with me and my girlfriend, except that I loved her so darn much I am willing to get married, be it 3 years down the road. She talked about marriage in about 2 weeks, I love you about the 3rd or 4th day into our relationship. It was comforting to know, but I explained to her that in western society that "I love you" has a much stronger connotation than "sarang hae" does in Korea. Anyway, she is amazing , the only obstacle in our path is her godamned father! |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| oldfatfarang wrote: |
Westerners marry for 'love' (or so the fairy tale goes). On the other hand, Asian ladies marry for other considerations that Westerners just can't fathom (parental wishes, cultural age/marriage norms age-specific gender roles, financial security, production of 'sons', and continuance of family lines. |
Yes, Westerners just can't fathom women who marry for "financial security." That concept is so foreign to us that we also don't know what the term "gold digger" means. |
I'll grant you that Western society has Gold Diggers (both female and male). However, in our cultures, this type of behavior is largely frowned upon. At uni I met heaps of single ladies, and the ones that openly stated they wanted to "marry a doctor" - ended up being lonely.
Whereas, in Asian cultures it's completely acceptable to seek 'a rich man'. Asian women hold such low position in their societies that they must marry for financial security. Something that escapes Westerners who get involved with them.
I'm taking a class on 'Marriage' after vacation. After talking with K girls about marriage for 4 years, I already know the answers I'll get on their speaking questionaires: (parents, money, security, handsome). I'll be astounded to hear if any of them talk about 'love' and 'romance'. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| thoreau wrote: |
I am 40 years old and work in a professional environment. I would say that at most 20% of the people I polled answers 'Yes' to this question: Would you get married again if you had to do it all over?
To me, a legal marriage is a crutch for a lot of people. If two people love each other they can exist in harmony without some formal acknowledgment by the state. |
1. This is very true.
Why not explain to her that you love her and want to be with her (if it's true, if it's not, now might be the time to start letting her down as gently as possible) but are not ready for marriage yet and that you want to also travel to some other countries and work there. If you do this, will she be willing to join you? Would you want her to come with you? If so you may be able to stay bf and gf without being married yet... Or would you stay together but you'd be in other countries for a year..? (not a good plan.)
2. I'm kind of on the fence about sakamuras ideology.
Yes some foriegners come here and then dump their girlfriends without ever having entertained the possibility of the relationship lasting. From the girl's perspective this is very unfair and hurtful, dowright disrespect.
But then again on the flip side, once she starts feeling like she wants the relationship to be serious, she should talk to him about that possibilty before her feelings start getting to deep or her expectations too grand...
My point is, she must take responsibilty for HERSELF and a lot of Korean women just do not do this. Sure a guy is kinda out of order for stringing a girl along, but at the same time if she wants something meaningful, she needs to talk to him and find out if he's on the same page and be ready to think to herself and possibly say to him
'well I want more than just hanging out and sleeping together, I want to know he/you love(s) me and want(s) to consider a future together...'
Then if she feels they are not on the same page, however painful or hard it may be SHE needs to dump him, cause he's not going to care about it as much as she is or be hurt as much if he never had long term plans.
I know some western women are blind like this too, but MOST Korean women approach their relationships with foriegners blindly and thinking that as they are sleeping together and acting out a relationship that it has a future - ie they think actions equate to intentions. With women it may be so and with Korean guys in relationships with Korean women it may be so (I dunno) but I can tell you right now that with western guys it AINT SO. Untill you've 'had the talk' that makes things official, then it 'aint official...'
Good luck smoothing things out Op....[/b] |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:42 am Post subject: |
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The guy is just expressing an normal dillema that all people have, irrespective of their gender, race or background or whatever. Lighten up.
And if you knew anything about Korea, you would conceed that most Koreans would not want him to marry her defacto as he is a foreigner thus marrying will further tarnish our image and not marrying wont.
| sakamuras wrote: |
Well, it's quite obvious the OP led his girlfriend into believing the relationship is something serious. By taking responibility, it means being honest with her regarding future plans and goals. Based on what the OP said, it appears Korea was only a stop on a personal world tour. Nothing wrong with that, but at least grow a pair and let the girlfriend know what the intentions are. Seems like the OP wants the "benefits" of a gf here in Korea, while also still pursuing his own independent goals.
That is just selfish in my opinion. There's another human being involved in the equation. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:51 am Post subject: |
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In korea mariage isnt about love or sentiment: it is about a) families coming together, b) being of equal social status, c) finances coming together.
I am not saying that Koreans don't marry out of love but it really isnt about that. Family is generally the most important thing in the equation. Many other Asian nations are similar in this respect.
| Epicurus wrote: |
I am surrounded by female teachers at my office, most in their mid to late twenties. I have no complaints on this front. 
It IS fascinating to watch them though. One, who's a product of one of Korea's better universities is obsesssed with being thought of as "beautiful" (which won't happen because she's not, but to me that doesn't matter as she's not "ugly" and I consider her fun and cool)
However, she did hit the big 3-0 this year so after showing me pics of various bf's including one she was giggling about because she was several years younger, I was recently stunned to learn that she's getting married. To whom? well, not any of the guys she was dating and giggling about last year. I don't know the details but sounds like a shotgun wedding to some "Samsung manager" type. She's become a lot less fun and more serious since the wedding date announcement.
Shame.
on another front one of my students was complaining about not having a gf because he's not "rich-ee", so as a kind of a joke I asked all the young g female teachers around us if they wanted a "rich-ee" bfs or husband and they immediately answered "yes" without even batting an eyelash.
I just chuckled.
In certain ways it's almost commendable that they don't by into the Western modern day "fairy tales", but in other ways my Western "values" can't help but leave me a little sad. I guess despite my cynicism I am stil somewhat of a romantic at heart. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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[EDIT]
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
T
And if you knew anything about Korea, you would conceed that most Koreans would not want him to marry her defacto as he is a foreigner thus marrying will further tarnish our image and not marrying wont.
] |
What does this have to do with it? If two consenting adults want to get married, then nobody else has any real say in the matter.
And where do you get this idea of "most Koreans"? From this board? Or did you do a sociological study? Or it is personal experience? Because if we are going by personal experience, just about every Korean I know, (and I know quite a few) has encouraged me to find and marry a "nice Korean girl." |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Principally because marrying a foreigner and having a child with one will further distort the Korean gene pool.
Are you fluent in Korean?? What is the level of your Korean ability may I ask, you have been here for eons since 삼국 시대 I expect it must be good?? 
I ask this because it is apparent to me that most (an empirical observation, having met many Koreans, read 'most in my experience' if that helps you) will say one thing to your face and another thing behind your back. Or one thing in English and another thing in Korean. I have had it done to me and I have heard it done to others countless times both in Korea and outside.
Not for the first UM lets agree to disagree.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
T
And if you knew anything about Korea, you would conceed that most Koreans would not want him to marry her defacto as he is a foreigner thus marrying will further tarnish our image and not marrying wont.
] |
What does this have to do with it? If two consenting adults want to get married, then nobody else has any real say in the matter.
And where do you get this idea of "most Koreans"? From this board? Or did you do a sociological study? Or it is personal experience? Because if we are going by personal experience, just about every Korean I know, (and I know quite a few) has encouraged me to find and marry a "nice Korean girl." |
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JasperTeach
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
| Detective Madoka |
As much as I'd like to think I was brillant, reality is that the guy made it easy. We started flaming each other when chemical blur made up wild fantasies of being a investment banker making $100K a year yet owning a $150K car. When I called it on him, his salary magically increased to $400K a year. After chemical blur got banned, he continued to flame me using ducati. When ducati got banned, he cyberstalked me as sakamuras and followed many of my recent posts with ad hominem attacks. Dude is pretty transparent. You'll notice that all three accounts have a very similar posting style and a very negative attitude towards white NETs. Only now he doesn't fantasize about owning fancy cars and making bank. |
QUESTION for veterans: do a lot of people have aliases on here, even the ones who don't get banned.... like use a couple different usernames to post, possibly to gain the upper hand in an argument?
Also, OP - WHERE ARE YOU? This thread is very interesting and we want answers! How old are you, whats the more specific situation, what are you thinking now?? Talk to us! |
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backhand
Joined: 17 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| AgentM wrote: |
| Epicurus wrote: |
| In certain ways it's almost commendable that they don't by into the Western modern day "fairy tales", but in other ways my Western "values" can't help but leave me a little sad. I guess despite my cynicism I am stil somewhat of a romantic at heart. |
I think that's sad too. I would certainly want a woman to want me for who I am, not for whatever riches I might have (not that I'll ever likely be that rich anyways)...hopefully most Korean women aren't that materialistic! |
You'll be fine as most care about the inner man. |
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whatever
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Location: Korea: More fun than jail.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Got dumped by my ex-K-gf's dad, two years into it. Everyone else in the family loved me. Wanna buy a diamond? |
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Joe666
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Location: Jesus it's hot down here!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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whatever wrote:
| Quote: |
| Got dumped by my ex-K-gf's dad, two years into it. Everyone else in the family loved me. Wanna buy a diamond? |
Very nice! I just can't comprehend this. TWO YEARS TOGETHER. I obviously don't know the inner workings of what your relationship entailed. I can only assume that after two years together, it wasn't "hello, nice to see you again". So much for individuality and intestinal furtitude. After reading this, I just quit. |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Kurtz wrote: |
Sorry dude but I'm with sakamuris. You should know many K-girls are conditioned into getting married, and that having a plaything which will be promptly dumped on your exit from this country isn't a nice thing to do.
Try getting one of the wasted looking chain smoking K-girls that hang out in foreigner bars, they might be more open to a good time than a serious relationship. |
Christ. What a gentleman you are.
Sorry. I always forget that Korean women are even easier for Western men to place into the boxes of "virgin" or "*beep*". Either she's too stupid ("innocent") to realize her boyfriend, who's here on a one year contract, will probably be leaving eventually, or she's an Itaewon streetwalker.
OP, not all women (Korean or otherwise) burst into tears and storm off just because you're discussing the future honestly. Find another, who's more on your level -- good for right now, not so worried about the future. Possibly even in a transient situation herself in life at the moment, so the feelings aren't so hard, either way. Chain smoking optional. |
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