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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Kabrams: you seem consumed by the same hypersensitivity re: race that consumes H. Gates.
This topic has become the race, class, and gender people's new cause c�l�bre, and for what? Police response to a break-in report? I imagine 9/11 dispatchers ought to ask whether the suspects and homeowners are African-American next time, and if they are, do not send any white police to the scene as that would be racist. Better yet: do not respond at all. Would not want to offend African-American and race, class, and gender sensibilities, would we?
This story is about an overly-suspicious neighbor, watching everyone else's houses; and about a hypersensitive, histrionic, and hyperbolic African-American homeowner who became unreasonable with the police because he sees everything through a racist lens and because he became angry with the responding officer for doing his job. Y punto. |
Ding, Ding! That's right! Johnny, tell him what he's won! |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know the first words out of the responding officer's mouth?
I mean, I could imagine two possible scenarios...
"Excuse me sir. There has been reports of a break-in at this residence. Are you the owner?"
or
"Step outside!"
Anyone know how it played out at the start? Has that been said? |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
More than that, Bacasper. What we see are the origins of desegregation's nonviability.
Perhaps blacks and whites would be better off in their own neighborhoods, with their own police officers and schools, etc., etc., etc., and ought to avoid "interfering" in the others' sphere, "harassing" the other side's day-to-day lives, as much as possible while inhabiting the same country.
Anything but these neverending allegations that all of us who are white all inveterate, malicious racists, while all those who are black are good and pure and just victims, until the end of time... |
That is a bit of an exaggeration. There are many neighborhoods, at least in NYC, where a rainbow spectrum of people are just that - people - with relatively few of the problems noted here. Note I said "many," certainly not all, and many other areas definitely have problems. I at least partially agree that it may not work everywhere.
OTOH, there is something to be said for voluntary segregation to an extent. I once knew a black militant who wanted to go to South Africa to fight IN SUPPORT OF the apartheid government because he supported separation of the races.
Black comedian George Wallace said, referring to kids trying to act like a different race,
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| I don't want no "wiggers." I like my white people white and my black people black. |
Each group has a rich culture which should not only be preserved, but given a space in which it is allowed to flourish. I can't think of anything more boring than a completely homogeneous planet.
Frank Zappa composed and sang You Are What You Iz
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A foolish young man from a middle class fam'ly
Started singin' the blues, 'cause he thought it was manly
Now he talks like the Kingfish ("Saffiiiee!") from Amos 'n Andy ("Holy mack'l dere, holy mack'l dere")
He tells you that Chitlins (Chitlins), well, they taste just like candy
He thinks that he's got the whole thing down
From the Nivea Lotion to The Royal Crown
Do you know what you are?
You are what you is
You is what you am, a cow don't make ham
You ain't what you're not, so see what you got
You are what you is and that's all it is
A foolish young man of the Negro Persuasion
(Well, well, well) Devoted his life to become a Caucasian
(Well, well, well) He stopped eating pork, he stopped eating greens
(Well, well, well) He traded his dashiki ("Uhuru!") for some Jordache Jeans
(Well, well, well) He learned to play golf and he got a good score
(Well, well, well) Now he says to himself, "I ain't no nigger no more" (Hey, hey, hey)
I don't understand you
(***) Bwana ma-coo-bah
(***) Would you please speak more clearly
Mercedes Benz! |
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An individual should be able to incorporate aspects of any culture he likes if he enjoys it. I don't like my white people white and black people black. I like my people to be true to themselves and be whoever they want to be. A black guy wearing Jordache jeans and playing golf is not necessarily trying to be white. He may just like golf and jeans. The idea that one must follow the stereotypes of his race in order to be his true self is absurd. It's sad that some people think that any person who does not display their race's attached stereotypes is being a phony rather than being individualistic. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Kabrams: you seem consumed by the same hypersensitivity re: race that consumes H. Gates.
This topic has become the race, class, and gender people's new cause c�l�bre, and for what? Police response to a break-in report? I imagine 9/11 dispatchers ought to ask whether the suspects and homeowners are African-American next time, and if they are, do not send any white police to the scene as that would be racist. Better yet: do not respond at all. Would not want to offend African-American and race, class, and gender sensibilities, would we?
This story is about an overly-suspicious neighbor, watching everyone else's houses; and about a hypersensitive, histrionic, and hyperbolic African-American homeowner who became unreasonable with the police because he sees everything through a racist lens and because he became angry with the responding officer for doing his job. Y punto. |
What are you going on about? I don't think Crowley is racist. I actually think the opposite.
What I'm saying is, it's really strange that
1. Crowley says Whalen told him two black men lived there, yet they never even met
2. Crowley was convinced Gates lived there, yet still asked him for identification
3. Crowley called more officers to the home even after confirming Gates was indeed Gates and that this residence was indeed Gates' residence and that no break-in was in progress or imminent
4. Whalen indicated in her phone call that it could be entirely possible that Gates lived in the residence, and was just having trouble getting the door open, because she saw suitcases outside
and yet people are still saying "OMG Gates is such a loser! He's hypersensitive! He's obsessed with race! Get over it!"
I don't understand.
Crowley's story is the one that has holes in it, yet it is still Gates who is being targeted by the majority of people here.
Why? Because he may or may not have believed he was being racially profiled?
It has not yet been confirmed whether or not Gates said anything about being a black man in America or that Crowley was "racist". We already know Crowley's police report has factual errors and fabrications (i.e. he spoke with Whalen) yet people are steadfast in their belief of that police report.
I think it's very telling. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| flakfizer wrote: |
| An individual should be able to incorporate aspects of any culture he likes if he enjoys it. I don't like my white people white and black people black. I like my people to be true to themselves and be whoever they want to be. A black guy wearing Jordache jeans and playing golf is not necessarily trying to be white. He may just like golf and jeans. The idea that one must follow the stereotypes of his race in order to be his true self is absurd. It's sad that some people think that any person who does not display their race's attached stereotypes is being a phony rather than being individualistic. |
So whites aren't white, and blacks aren't black?
Anyway, I support your right to like wiggers or be one, but neither I nor everyone may like it, and that's OK. You should also realize that by homogenizing the races, you may be diluting or contributing to the loss of the very culture you want to imitate or incorporate.
You did, however, miss Zappa's point which was about people consciously rejecting their own identities. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Zappa? Strange citation.
People have consciously identified themselves through race, class, and gender markers since the early-1970s. Check the census; check any job application, etc.
It is called "identity politics." And it is the wrong way to go. It leads to institutionalized difference, and then reifies disharmony and divisiveness. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Zappa? Strange citation.
People have consciously identified themselves through race, class, and gender markers since the early-1970s. Check the census; check any job application, etc.
It is called "identity politics." And it is the wrong way to go. It leads to institutionalized difference, and then reifies disharmony and divisiveness. |
People have been identifying themselves a certain way since Ancient times. It's a human characteristic to categorize. That's just the way that it is.
The problem is when people start assigning negative (or positive) characteristics to these classifications without merit or logic. |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
Kabrams: you seem consumed by the same hypersensitivity re: race that consumes H. Gates.
This topic has become the race, class, and gender people's new cause c�l�bre, and for what? Police response to a break-in report? I imagine 9/11 dispatchers ought to ask whether the suspects and homeowners are African-American next time, and if they are, do not send any white police to the scene as that would be racist. Better yet: do not respond at all. Would not want to offend African-American and race, class, and gender sensibilities, would we?
This story is about an overly-suspicious neighbor, watching everyone else's houses; and about a hypersensitive, histrionic, and hyperbolic African-American homeowner who became unreasonable with the police because he sees everything through a racist lens and because he became angry with the responding officer for doing his job. Y punto. |
What are you going on about? I don't think Crowley is racist. I actually think the opposite.
What I'm saying is, it's really strange that
1. Crowley says Whalen told him two black men lived there, yet they never even met
2. Crowley was convinced Gates lived there, yet still asked him for identification
3. Crowley called more officers to the home even after confirming Gates was indeed Gates and that this residence was indeed Gates' residence and that no break-in was in progress or imminent
4. Whalen indicated in her phone call that it could be entirely possible that Gates lived in the residence, and was just having trouble getting the door open, because she saw suitcases outside
and yet people are still saying "OMG Gates is such a loser! He's hypersensitive! He's obsessed with race! Get over it!"
I don't understand.
Crowley's story is the one that has holes in it, yet it is still Gates who is being targeted by the majority of people here.
Why? Because he may or may not have believed he was being racially profiled?
It has not yet been confirmed whether or not Gates said anything about being a black man in America or that Crowley was "racist". We already know Crowley's police report has factual errors and fabrications (i.e. he spoke with Whalen) yet people are steadfast in their belief of that police report.
I think it's very telling. |
There are differing versions about what happened. I think some of your points are incorrect or doubtful. Crowley said that Gates "appeared to be a resident" in the police report. It seems reasonable for him to ask for an ID to be sure. The black police officer at the scene said he heard Gates say, "This is how a black man in American is treated and I'm being placed under arrest in my own home because a white woman called the police."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxM8cwosjew
So we can be reasonably sure that Gates believed he was being racially profiled. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| Kepler wrote: |
| kabrams wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
Kabrams: you seem consumed by the same hypersensitivity re: race that consumes H. Gates.
This topic has become the race, class, and gender people's new cause c�l�bre, and for what? Police response to a break-in report? I imagine 9/11 dispatchers ought to ask whether the suspects and homeowners are African-American next time, and if they are, do not send any white police to the scene as that would be racist. Better yet: do not respond at all. Would not want to offend African-American and race, class, and gender sensibilities, would we?
This story is about an overly-suspicious neighbor, watching everyone else's houses; and about a hypersensitive, histrionic, and hyperbolic African-American homeowner who became unreasonable with the police because he sees everything through a racist lens and because he became angry with the responding officer for doing his job. Y punto. |
What are you going on about? I don't think Crowley is racist. I actually think the opposite.
What I'm saying is, it's really strange that
1. Crowley says Whalen told him two black men lived there, yet they never even met
2. Crowley was convinced Gates lived there, yet still asked him for identification
3. Crowley called more officers to the home even after confirming Gates was indeed Gates and that this residence was indeed Gates' residence and that no break-in was in progress or imminent
4. Whalen indicated in her phone call that it could be entirely possible that Gates lived in the residence, and was just having trouble getting the door open, because she saw suitcases outside
and yet people are still saying "OMG Gates is such a loser! He's hypersensitive! He's obsessed with race! Get over it!"
I don't understand.
Crowley's story is the one that has holes in it, yet it is still Gates who is being targeted by the majority of people here.
Why? Because he may or may not have believed he was being racially profiled?
It has not yet been confirmed whether or not Gates said anything about being a black man in America or that Crowley was "racist". We already know Crowley's police report has factual errors and fabrications (i.e. he spoke with Whalen) yet people are steadfast in their belief of that police report.
I think it's very telling. |
There are differing versions about what happened. I think some of your points are incorrect or doubtful. Crowley said that Gates "appeared to be a resident" in the police report. It seems reasonable for him to ask for an ID to be sure. The black police officer at the scene said he heard Gates say, "This is how a black man in American is treated and I'm being placed under arrest in my own home because a white woman called the police."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxM8cwosjew
So we can be reasonably sure that Gates believed he was being racially profiled. |
How are some of my points incorrect or doubtful? Which ones? Because 1 and 4 have introduced a new witness, Whalen, who had no stake in the Gates/Crowley argument (and 4 is actually documented on tape) 2 was said by both Gates and Crowley and 3 is documented on tape as well.
So how can it be "doubtful" or "incorrect"? If there is incorrect/false information in the police report, isn't it resonable to assume that Crowley's account of what, exactly, happened with Gates might also be at least partially incorrect?
The story has holes in it.
And even if Gates believed he was being racially profiled, SO WHAT? The amount of hatred Gates inspired is insane. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| flakfizer wrote: |
| An individual should be able to incorporate aspects of any culture he likes if he enjoys it. I don't like my white people white and black people black. I like my people to be true to themselves and be whoever they want to be. A black guy wearing Jordache jeans and playing golf is not necessarily trying to be white. He may just like golf and jeans. The idea that one must follow the stereotypes of his race in order to be his true self is absurd. It's sad that some people think that any person who does not display their race's attached stereotypes is being a phony rather than being individualistic. |
So whites aren't white, and blacks aren't black?
Huh?
Anyway, I support your right to like wiggers or be one, but neither I nor everyone may like it, and that's OK. You should also realize that by homogenizing the races, you may be diluting or contributing to the loss of the very culture you want to imitate or incorporate.
That's hilarious. I am as far from being a wigger as one can be. I also don't care for "wiggers" if I understand what you mean by that term. But I think "wigger" is a bit extreme. I think most white people incorporate some aspects of black culture into their lives without going all the way to trying to be black.
You did, however, miss Zappa's point which was about people consciously rejecting their own identities.
No, I got it. I just think he did a lousy job of making that point. A guy playing golf and wearing Jordache jeans is rejecting his own identity? Please. This whole "rejecting one's identity" is a two-edged sword anyway. A guy trying hard to act like he belongs to a different racial group may be rejecting his true identity, but so is a guy who is afraid to adopt certain aspects of another group because he is afraid people will think he isn't "white enough" or "black enough." There is a real problem with associating certain tastes, behaviors, etc. with one race and suggesting that one is "rejecting their true self" if they don't act enough like their race "is supposed to." I've heard blacks complain that they were accused of not being black enough because they tried hard in school. That's a problem.
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| It's pathetic that Crowley had to call for more cops. If this guy can't handle a situation involving an innocent citizen trying to stay home and mind his own business, how is Crowley going to be able to handle criminals, big and small? What a complete waste of taxpayer dollars. |
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