Korean Job Discussion Forums

[T-J]

I believe what I said was that the conversation will always gravitate toward the language that both are more proficient in. If someone feels that their point is not being conveyed effectively they try other means. If Koreans feel that by speaking in Korean to you is more effectual for communication they will do it, if not, they won't. No real conspiracy.

Again, I reiterate my offer for free Korean language instruction. Zero English, not a language exchange. So there you go.

[harlowethrombey]

I cant believe this thread is still going. I havnt bothered to check on what its morphed into but I'm guessing xenophobia and accusations of racism.

[probius]

This is my first post in this forum, and I signed up mostly to reply to this thread. I hope you don't mind me adding my two cents, and I hope I don't offend anyone, Korean or otherwise, with my reply.

First of all, all the people going against tomato need to understand where he is coming from and read the lines between his posts. Tomato is not looking for suggestions about how he can get more Korean study. Obviously not everybody is speaking to him in English all the time, or he wouldn't be able to do those things he is doing. However, what tomato has a problem with is the prevailing attitude of the Koreans he has come into contact with. The reasons for this are twofold, split between the younger and older generation.

Among the younger generation (born after the Korean war), many times English is used as a proof of intelligence and/or affluence, since you have to be fairly well off to get good English instruction. Why do you think that many recent pop songs use random English phrases in the middle? Therefore, he may sense an air of superiority when English is used in this manner.

Among the older generation, as Kim Su Bok and others have stated, Koreans could view anyone other than Koreans as an outsider, and it is impossible for an outsider to be Korean. Therefore, why would an outsider want to learn the language? Automatically, when that type of person looks at someone who is not Korean, they will revert to that mode of thinking, and therefore most likely speak English, if they know even a few words.

One thing you have to remember is that a people are shaped by their history. If you view them based on that history, it might make it a little easier to understand. Koreans' history is as a group of farmers, a tight knit group that depend on each other for survival. This not only explains the work ethic, but also the sense of belonging and rejection of outsiders, which is even embedded in their language, as was said by others (우리 나라, etc).

If you want to see even more proof of this, remember that there is another Korea besides South Korea. Many people in North Korea probably have never seen a foreigner, and one of the main tenets of Kim Il-sung is the Juche ideal, which is one of self-reliance. Furthermore, prior to the Japanese occupation, which made Korea even more distrustful of foreigners, Korea was known as the Hermit Kingdom, and so for a reason.

Now I am describing the extreme here, and as many people have said, most Koreans are not necessarily like this. Plenty of Koreans are accepting and understanding of foreigners, and I have made many good friends during my time here. However, one cannot expect to find the same level of acceptance as might be found in another country which does not have this same history and culture. If tomato is comparing his experieces in another country to Korea, he will maybe find a slightly higher level of xenophobia, and that is very off-putting to him, and it just happens to manifest itself through being spoken to in English.

If you are curious about Miriam Ferguson, she was a governor of Texas in the early 1900's, and is attributed with the quote, "If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it ought to be good enough for the children of Texas." Basically, tomato is using the reference to describe those who believe they are superior because they speak English. If you want more information, just use the Google.

I know this is probably way too much information, and please remember that this is mostly my opinion, and I don't necessarily have facts to back it all up. However, I hope this can clear up some confusion, and maybe sums up some of the arguments in this thread. Tomato, I hope you can find the Korean practice you desire, and in no way do I condone the actions of those people who offended you, but please remember those who treated you well, and remember that attitudes are changing, especially with the introduction of many foreign wives to Korea, but maybe not as fast as you would like. I look forward to your comments.

[tomato]

THANKS!

[TheUrbanMyth]

[tomato]

No, the crux of my problem is not getting fixed.
And I doubt very seriously if the crux of the problem is getting fixed for you, or for any other KSL student.
As I stated in my fifth post on page 17, one or a few individuals cannot meet all of a foreigner's need for foreign language experience.
If you think you are getting all your needs met, you are probably fooling yourself.

Throughout most of our primeval past, we did not sit still all day and learn from teachers and books. As a result, it is in our nature to learn from a variety of settings and a variety of experiences.

That is one reason why a second language student usually learns more in a foreign country than in a classroom--unless it's a Fergusonian stronghold like Korea.

Let us imagine a person in his own country, intensely studying from a textbook and audiovisual materials. He will learn all seven days of the week from the same page and from the same band on the CD. His experience with all seven words will be the same and will be remembered the same. 화요일 will interfere with 목요일, and 토요일 will interfere with 일요일.

Now let us imagine a person travelling to Korea--and let us imagine that the person is an Asian, so he won't have to compete with Fergusonians. That person will then have seven different experiences in which he practices those seven different words. Those seven experiences will be different from each other and will be remembered differently from each other.

If you still don't understand, think of your own experiences in Korea. You have all seen signs which say 약, signs which say 꽃, and milk cartons which say 서울 우유. You have all heard mommies yelling "이리 와," students saying "외국인입니다," and preschoolers crying "엄마." You remember these experiences differently, so you will never make the mistake of thinking 약 means come here or 엄마 means gringo.

Think how much more you could learn if all those 캔아이헬프유's were turned into 도와줄까요's.

[tomato]

[tomato]

Tomato stepped up to the podium in the spacious auditorium. He tested the microphone and said, "Welcome to the first meeting of the James Melville Cox Society. James Melville Cox, as some of you already know, was a journalist in Japan. In 1939, he was groundlessly accused of espionage and interrogated by the police. The police became only more suspicious when they found that Cox could carry on the interrogation without an interpreter, Some say that he jumped through a third-storey window, some say that the police pushed him. At any rate, we revere James Melville Cox for his martyrdom for the cause of second language literacy for speakers of English.

"We are all gathered here to combat the evil forces of Fergusonianism. We will maim and torture every ticket agent who has ever told a foreign passenger the bus arrival time in English. We will loot every store where a clerk has ever shown the calculator to a foreign customer. We will mangle every Korean who has ever gone up to a foreigner and said 웰콤 투 코리야. We will line up all the Miriam Ferguson Society members and shoot them. The Korean police will have no power over us as we take to the streets in the hundreds! Thousands! Millions! Crying '도와줄까요 si! 캔아이헬프유 no! 도와줄까요 si! 캔아이헬프유 no!'"

After Tomato finished his impassioned speech, he brushed a tear from his eye and said, "Are there any questions?"

A lone hand went up on the first row. "Shouldn't we recruit a couple more members first? Then we'll have enough members to elect a President, Vice-President, Secretary, and Treasurer."

[Surfer Rosa]

Just responding to the title...

Of course not. And I hope they don't get offended while I'm learning Korean either.

If you thought people had an issue with speaking/learning a foreign language, why the *beep* would you even bother learning it?

[Robot_Teacher]

Do I get offended when someone speaks English? Only if you been around them a while and they failed to let you know and making it out communication is impossible as to avoid you up to a certain point.

I'm not having Tomatos problem as they usually only speak Korean outside of schools with a very few special exceptions where I'm at. If you want to speak Korean with the Koreans, get out of Seoul to the smaller towns where they'll expect it out of you just the same as they do any Korean. They speak to you like you know Korean fluently out here and expect it with little or no English. I've met several Korean adults that speak some English, but are not interested in being friends nor like foreigners. They only ask you what you're doing here, how long, how old you are, and if you have a woman. After asking you these questions, that's all they have to do with you. Socially retarded I call it.

I got offended by a Korean man who had been going to the gym at the same time I go each day for the past 3 months not making an effert to say, "Hi," despite the fact he can converse in English fairly well. I would had never known if hadn't let the cat out of the bag. He only spoke to me last week for the 1st time, becuase he was storing his shoes and personal hygeine stuff in a locker the gym manager gave me the key to that day when you're not supposed to store things. We get 2 keys, but one I don't ever use which is where he had his stuff. I was on the treadmill and he had the balls to speak English fairly well to interupt my workout to tell me I had his key and I must immediately get off the treadmill. I argued with him telling him that the manager gave me key and for him to leave me alone, but he wouldn't leave nor stop talking so I pressed the stop button and was almost ready to bop his head. Since the key was locked in the one locker I use, we went down to the locker room to trade keys, but not without exchanging some words due to him making it out that I was in the wrong and being so demanding like a baby throwing a tandrum. I told him you can't store your things as I too wanted to store shoes and things, but was told not to when I joined. I told him if it happens again, I won't be so nice next time to stop my workout and I'll just put him on ignore. I also told him he could had tried to say, "Hi," before now since he could speak English and not be so socially retarded. He tried to play it off that he was entitled to a permanent locker and I was the one wrong and being rude for having his key when he knows better as the manager tells everyone joining about the rules and how it works. This is where you get different keys each visit and you're not assigned an individual locker to store things in.

[tomato]

[beercanman]

18 pages?

wow

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