Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Paji eh Wong]

As long as I get paid, I don't give a rat's ass what my owner thinks. I care what my students think. Fortunately, my owner's good enough that I can get away with that.

I'm not an expert, but I'd think the Korean economic situation has more to do with hagwon owners views than politics. I think that Korea is slowly falling into the same hole that Japan has been in for the last 10 years. They are competing harder for less and less won. And then owners have to make such large commitments to foriegners that they view them a little warily.

[humanuspneumos]

Korea newfie's conversation makes me wonder how the poll turned out the way it did.

[VanIslander]

Actually, it is a bad argument:

Most A's are B's

D is an A

THEREFORE

D is a B. (??)

If that's what you're implying, then it's bad deductive reasoning according to any logician.

But you conclude that:

D's are B's

Left unqualified, Are you saying all D's are B's?? (let's say no, you're not)

Then are you are claiming that:

"most Ds are Bs"?

If so, then you are supposing that the distribution within the subpopulation is the same as the whole. That is not clearly true. It is invalid deductive reasoning because your premises may be true and yet your conclusion may be false: you could just as well have tried to conclude that "some D's are B's" or even that "few D's are B's" because your conclusion doesn't follow (or else is underspecified to the point of being meaningless). This is not an issue of how logically sound your argument structure is, because someone can grant you the truth of the premises without at all reaching the same conclusion. Your argument is simply invalid by the standards of formal and informal logic.

Of course, it's also the way we often think.

It is said we aren't hardwired to naturally assess probabilities.

We act on our impressions as if they were certainties.

That's what makes everyone prejudiced to a certain degree.

But please. let's not embrace it and say it's logical.

Moreover, a thread like this might show that MANY directors are resentful of foreign teachers, but it won't show that MOST are. You can believe that it is true, but we don't have to. And even if MOST are, there are obviously MANY exceptions to the so-called rule, as perhaps signified by the poll results.

[humanuspneumos]

Valid but not sound argument Number: 133;Example (p.11):

If grapefruits are fruits, then grapefruits grow on trees

It's false that grapefruits grow on trees

It's false that grapefruits are ftuits

2003/9/29GRCLogic 2003:Lect02: Chap. 1-23Valid but...


That's why I said: perhaps not sound

You're right- one must be careful of conceptualization or impressions

[VanIslander]

Your argument was from two premises, the first of which stated: THE MAJORITY OF

That makes your premise of the form: MOST A's are B's

So my observations stand.

-------------------
Aside: The fact is your argument is not of the form of the one you now cite:

The logic textbook is of course correct that it's a valid but unsound argument to reason:

if A then B,
B is false,
therefore,
A is false.

The first premise is a conditional, (which your argument didn't have at all.)

The argument is valid in the technical sense that if the premises are true, then the conclusion will necessarily be true.

It's unsound because the first premise is NOT TRUE (though some logicians have tried to argue that it's just underspecified and deny the modal assumption that "A" means "all A")

The honorable thing to do is admit your mistake and move on. But Westerners have to save face too. So I will tell you that many people make the sort of mistakes you make. For three years I was a teaching assistant for logic and argumentation courses while I was a graduate student in Philosophy. I saw A-level students often misapply the rules of logic. I responded to your post because you tried to present an argument as logically valid when it was not. (And I was motivated by my disagreement over the truth of the conclusion anyways.)

If it'll help: I break grammar rules all the time. And I don't want some Linguistics grad to nitpick my sentences. But if I ever claim to be providing a grammatically good sentence, when I am not, then I expect to be corrected by those who know better.

G'day.

[Gord]

But we all agree tomatoes are fruit, right? Because I don't know if I can hang around with folks who think it's a vegetable.

[humanuspneumos]

Shall we say then that the Majority of Koreans want foreigners in their country? - that is- to make my premise true truth?

Secondly, I did qualify with "perhaps"- an assumptive form of demonstrating what would flow in terms of a valid line of reasoning- assuming that the premise of the argument was true for the sake of demonstrating where a common line of thinking goes should it begin with the premise I began with.

My curiosity is now at the point where I wonder where your personal opinion would go in terms of:

Majority
Minority
50/50

of the Korean populace want to be free of foreigners living/working in their country???

[cutter-saram]

i feel my my western ass is resented down here. however, as a necessary evil down here to fuel international competitiveness, and only appreciated to such ends, i intend to incarnate evil to its fullest. in the words of satan:
NON SERVIAM (well okay, kinda)

[rapier]

I do a good job, by and large. i enjoy teaching, I love kids. i react well to the parents, I try to get on with my co-workers. I've been happilly surprised to find my supervisor and boss complimenting me, also some parents. I think my boss views me as an asset- he even buys me a dinner or coffee if I'm sat in the cafe and he's passing by- unheard of among his other waeguk employees.
They winge to him about everything, he gives them all the extra overtime work and gives me a choice of what i want.
i do, ..feel valued...at least 75% I guess...