Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Buzzed1]

I am an accomplished teacher in the United States, well educated with a Master's Degree in Teaching. I've traveled to many countries in the world, and have friends here in the U.S of all ethnic backgrounds. I'm also African American.

I heard some disturbing comments from other posts about Korean schools practicing racial discrimination when hiring ESL teachers.

How can Korea call itself a modern, free-thinking, and progressive nation, which by the way embraces American pop culture ad nauseum--(including American hip hop music--a BLACK music genre), yet turn up their noses at otherwise qualified ESL teachers simply because they have dark skin? This doesn't sound like the thinking of an "enlightened" country to me.

The stereotyping of an entire race of people as somehow "inferior" to Cacausian people and Korean people is itself a very dangerous and illigitimate perspective which reeks of the same Aryan, racist ideal espoused by Adolph Hitler. If American Blacks are all the things I just mentioned, then why is the current, preiminent leader of the free world a Black man? This is exactly the type of contradictory thinking in the minds of many Koreans-- which is totally out of step with other countries that hire native, English speaking teachers.

So can somebody please give me a "rational" reason that justifies this kind of thinking in modern day Korea? And what exactly is the Korean government doing (if anything) to conflate this societal anachronism?

I heard the Korean government has some type of law regarding discrimination. If so it's obvious the law is not enforced nor are perbetrators held liable for their actions. Consequently school administrators, teachers, and the parents of students continue to shamelessly practice discrimination as if they didn't have a mind of their own to tell anyone to stop it or to stop doing it themselves.

In most countries discrimination in job hiring based on race, sex, age, disability, sexual orientation, or religion is illegal and is not tolerated. Equally against the law is asking for someone's photograph and their age with a job application.

I know recruiters will say that your picture is needed in lieu of a face-to-face interview, and that the school wants to see what you look like. That's a crock and they know it. Recruiters and schools use your picture as a way to quickly disqualify you from the candidate pool if you happen to be too dark, too old, have facial imperfections, and even if you look too Asian. It's a general rule that recruiters are looking for young, pretty or handsome, blond hair and blue-eyed White people because that's what the majority of schools are telling the recuiters they want. And in order to keep their agencies open and to keep their jobs, recruiters invest alot of time and effort in "delivering the goods."

The color of someone's skin or their age has absolutely no bearing on how well they can perform the job. In fact most older candidates make better teachers because of their broad experience, their maturity level, and their focus. ESL teachers don't need to look like models, and people over 50 don't suddenly become senile. What makes me so angry is that I know the average, educated Korean knows this, yet they do nothing and say nothing. They just follow the crowd--essentially ignoring the problem as if it didn't exist. How sad that is.

In the United States any agency or person who practices this type of blatant institutional discrimination can be sued or put in jail (or both).

[saw6436]

This is not the USA. If you don't like the way things are done here don't apply to work here.

[sulperman]

Sorry for the short response, but this has been done to death. It is wrong, obviously, the way that black people are seen here by many (though NOT ALL) Koreans.

But if your only experience with black people was watching Chris Tucker and listening to hip hop, you'd have a pretty skewed view too. Add that to your cousin in LA's reports on the LA riots (when most Koreans first started thinking about black people) and you don't have a pretty picture.

Give it time. Lots of schools do have black teachers these days. A lot of my kids have this one black teacher at public school, and they all love him. Things will change, but not anytime soon.

You gotta take the country for what it is. Complaining about how people think won't change how they think. In fact, no one that matters will ever hear you and your opinions. The only way you can make a difference is by being a good teacher, and thereby changing minds one at a time.

Right or not, the world ain't perfect. But you are in a position to change a few people's minds, or to shape some young minds that don't have any negative feelings at all. Not many people have that opportunity in their lives. What an opportunity!

(I'm not joking- I hope I don't sound too blindly positive. I'm generally a pretty negative guy, but I also strongly believe that the power of doing is much greater than the power of wondering why and complaining with people who already agree with you, which accomplishes nothing)

[andrewchon]

Reading posters on Dave's is does not give you a true picture of Korea.

There are plenty of dark-skinned ESL teachers in Korea. Not only African-Americans, but Canadians, Brits, South Africans.

Hirings are done according to the market research, and if Korean students and parents don't feel that you'd make a good teacher, then it's the fault of negro race for not putting up an academic superstar. My students know many black superstars: Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryant, Lewis Hamilton, Usain Bolt, and sad to say, due to his recent demise, Michael Jackson. They even know Sameer Mishra (I show his video at spelling bee often), but he ain't a brother, is he? Where are the black smart guys Korean kids can worship? You tell me.

[Ilsanman]

We had an African/American teacher do a special summer class for us. He was popular, and I was surprised the kids accepted him without too much prejudice.

I just think of it this way: if they judge you on your skin colour and appearance, you probably don't want to work there anyways. You'd be working for a biggot.

If it becomes actually impossible to find a job, then it becomes a real issue.

[iggyb]

I grew bone tired of this backwards line you hear from a significant portion of the expat community: "This is their land. Whatever they do is their business. (Shut up and take it or leave.)"

Yeah, like Koreans do whenever they hear of some slight against Korea from the US - like back in the day when Jay Leon would make a Korean dog eating joke or Meg Ryan said something negative about a commercial she made for a Korean company...

Discrimination and racism are wrong. Period.

Having said that, the type of it you find in Korea, even for black people, isn't usually the "in your face" confrontational type the US had too much trouble with a few decades ago and before. I can believe black people have come to Korea and enjoyed their experience overall. Especially if teaching Korean elementary school kids. And black people can find teaching jobs though it is harder...

...but given what I have seen and heard as a white person in Korea, I could not recommend coming to work in Korea to a black person.

[Carla]

[Mr. Pink]

If it helps any, Koreans are also prejudice on where you went to school. So if you are dark skinned, but went to Harvard, you will have no problems getting a job here. They'll probably sell the fact that Obama was also an Ivy League grad and he's the most powerful man on the nation atm.

[bixlerscott]

I know a 55 year old black man teaching for a public school in Suwon in the GEPIK program. My public elementary school had a black man teaching Winter camp last January and the kids loved him. He was accepted by the staff just as well as I am. My experience of public school has been 100X better than hagwon though fraught with communication challenges. Sure hagwons operate on discriminatory corrupt practices so forget them as getting over worked by an anxiety inducing boss is not worth the $1500 to $2000 US per month anyhow regardless of what race you are as I learned the hard way a few years back. It's not America by any means, but you'll be OK. Regardless of what you look like, being any sort of foreigner does stir up a great deal of curiosity where people will take a 2nd long look unless in a modern big city place, but this really means nothing in Korea other than curiosity as Korea does not receive many foreign tourists from non-Asian countries. Many Koreans in the country side are not accustomed to seeing foreigners walk off the TV screen into their little neck of the woods, but I still yet to see any hostility and racism; just a reserved people who distance themselves and reluctant to openly talk to strangers. If you really want to go, just find a recruiter offering you a public school job and go.

Since you have high educator qualifications, you might look into international schools that operate in many different countries who typically hire their teachers back home to be sent overseas. They also pay 2x to 3x better than these ESL jobs we non-education career people are doing. We do these jobs to travel and take on new experiences; not because we wanted to be teachers as I wasn't an education major back in uni.

[Big Mac]

I don't think it is so much the hogwan directors that are discriminatory. It is the mothers. The hogwan directors are just responding to what the market wants. Unfortunately Korean mothers are blatantly racist. They are also very prejudiced when it comes to the accents of teachers. They want what they perceive to be the best for their kids, and a white North American is what they perceive as best. Is it small minded? Yes. But we aren't going to change their minds. They have to change it themselves.

I don't think you are likely to find as much discrimination in the public school system, because they don't have to worry about keeping the market happy.

[frankly speaking]

Discrimination exists everywhere. However, there are plenty of schools that hire all types of people.

If you start your job hunting with a chip on your shoulder, you won't have a good experience. With your credentials you are likely to get a good school and a higher salary than those who get hired from schools who just want 20 something white kids from USA or Canada.

"In most countries discrimination in job hiring based on race, sex, age, disability, sexual orientation, or religion is illegal and is not tolerated. Equally against the law is asking for someone's photograph and their age with a job application. "

That is not even close to being accurate. Yes in the US there are policies against all of those things but doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Don't assume because it is a standard in your country that it is a standard globally.

Ageist discrimination is rampant in the US.

As for having a picture on your resume. It is the standard in all asian countries and not just for foreign workers. It is also practiced highly in Eastern Europe. I have some friends from France and they say it is common there too.

Just because the US has policies that prohibit or discourage blatant racism or any form of discrimination, don't think for a second it eliminates it. If a manager has in his or her mind what kind of employee he/she wants, that is who gets hired.

[E_athlete]

agreed, i keep hearing that idiotic argument over and over again

"dont like korea? Just leave/dont come!"

"cops may be assholes but it's either them or total anarchy!"

this is called a false dichotomy. Obviously you have more than 2 options to choose from.

Okay now that I'd dealt with that stupidity we can get back to the heart of the matter. Yes Asian cultures tend to readily absorb trendy things like hip hop/r&b etc but when it comes to actual black people they do a 180. This has been known for some time if you ever been to Japan. It's the same with how white culture tends to love exotic Asian culture but when it comes to actual Asian people they feel awkward toward them.

From my experience here I find that in general Koreans find the situation to be awkward. Many do not any experience with foreigners and do not know exactly how to behave or speak to them. This creates anxiety and some discrimination in hiring processes we call racism. It's a reality that needs to be discussed soberly especially among Koreans. However Koreans seems to be in their own bubble. If you watch T.V you get the idea that Koreans are absorbed in their nationality, culture, korean-ness and forget that they are no different from the rest of the people around the world. It's the same in North America where people watch television and get the wrong impression that only white and black and gay people matter.

I'll think of something else to say later.

[iammac2002]

It's not just the color of your skin that some people make a fuss over, but my students often ask me what my height and weight is, and why my forearm hair is so long! Give it a rest, I'm not Korean, I don't have a BMI of 10 and I don't shave my arms!

[Goon-Yang]

Beat a dead horse often OP? Yep Korea bad. Korea isn't racist. They hate everyone except Koreans (full blooded K, not half breeds or gyopos...they suck too).

If you think it sucks so bad...stay away.

[Buzzed1]