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The Clintons are Awesome
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Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject:

Quote:

They know they've won, even if they didn't get to have their Empire.

I was always a bit dubious about the Left using that word 'empire' back when I was in college, but it kind of faded away until the neocons picked it up as if it were a good thing. Talk about flashbacks. Confused

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Quote:

They know they've won, even if they didn't get to have their Empire.

I'm using the term in a purely political sense. Like Dynasty. Except I didn't want to compare them to the Kennedys. *shudders*

ubermenzch

Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Location: bundang, south korea

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

ubermenzch wrote:

It is not so clear to me that the Bushes, the Clintons and Obama are all working together.

How exactly isn't it clear? Look at Obama's administration: it's pure Wallstreet. Not a single person representing any other facet of America, not even industry, it's just 100% people working for financial institutions. Nearly all of them are Clintonites, and have already stolen trillions of tax dollars and handed it over to the banks. Geithner used to be the NY Fed president, Obama made him Treasury Secretary. One of Obama's chief advisors on foreign affairs is Zbigniew Brzezinski, a good friend of David Rockefeller; the two founded the Trilateral Commission together.
Regardless of whether Obama or the Clintons or the Bushes are in power, they are all subservient to Wallstreet, which controls the money supply and therefore the entire economy. Wallstreet = the private Federal Reserve and the major banks, two of which are Rockefeller controlled. The bankers like Rockefeller fund everything, including the think tanks that determine US government policy. If you can't connect all these dots to see how the overall power structure works, then I don't think I can help you any further...

You write about the trilateral commission being a world conspiracy headed by the Rockefellers. A shadowy group which selects presidents who then do their every bidding, thus rendering each successive commander in chief unrecognizable from the last. Actually, the commission is excellent shorthand to show how the Rockefellers draw together politicians and academics-on-the-make to serve their business interests in government and out. It's unfortunate that the rich and powerful elite are able to hold so much influence over our government, and I agree that those in power are subservient to the corporate interests, and it makes me angry. But not so angry that I lose hold of my senses and declare Obama, Clinton and the Bushes to be one and the same.

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:31 am Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

Quote:

Until relatively recently these think tanks were all kept a big secret, their very existence was officially denied

Actually, I remember Trilateral conspiracy theories being discussed on an episode of Barney Miller, which must have been in the late 70s/early 80s some time(Dietrich appeared on this episode, which is how I'm dating it). Some guy was hauled into the station for(if I recall correctly) protesting a meeting of the Commission, and he specifically mentioned that he thought the point of the group was to make David Rockefeller ruler of the world, or something along those lines.

So, while, yes, Trilateral membership is not the first thing that most world leaders advertise about themselves, I don't think it's accurate to say that it's existence was being kept secret.

And are you aware that the CFR has been publishing bi-monthly magazine since 1922?Not much secret about that.

It's quite ironic that it's the very people who get mocked as being 'conspiracy theorists' who dig up most of the dirt and expose these groups for what they are. Once they've been exposed, the response from people in charge is that, yeah they exist, but it's no big deal. Kind of like Clinton saying Bilderberg is just a bunch of business people who "don't give a rip about NAFTA", or Obama saying the CFR is just "a bunch of people discussing foreign policy", as if it's all totally harmless.

Anyway, you are incorrect to say it's all very out in the open. It's no longer a secret, because it's been exposed and is simply impossible for the elites to deny any more, but it is all very hushed up. The CFR and Trilateral Commission are two of the most important determiners of foreign policy in the US, and yet are almost never mentioned in the mainstream media (except when being brushed aside as conpiracy theory) and most Americans have no idea that they exist! This is all deliberate; the reason these groups are able to operate so effectively is because most people are totally ignorant and buy 100% into the false left/right wing paradigm they have been fed all their lives.

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:42 am Post subject:

ubermenzch wrote:

visitorq wrote:

ubermenzch wrote:

It is not so clear to me that the Bushes, the Clintons and Obama are all working together.

You use the word conspiracy as a loaded term. What I have described is not my opinion, or my discovery. Until recently I had no clue about these elite groups, and I could hardly be called a conspiracy theorist. Quite the opposite, I'm quite skeptical about these things. However, I spent a lot of time researching it on my own, and I've come to realise that it's undeniably true. I seriously challenge you to do the same, I'm sure you will have the same experience.

There is a lot of rubbish along the way, and you have to ignore the real conspiracy theory crap about Illuminati as a kind of Satanic cult. I'm not an idiot, and I never believe any of that kind of stuff. But to say the Rockefeller family controls the supermajor oil companies (all descended from John D. Sr.'s Standard Oil Company monopoly) as well as Citibank and Chase Bank (now JPMorgan-Chase) is just a fact. To say they hide their money in trusts and are probably worth an amount in the trillions is no conspiracy. To say the Federal Reserve is a private corporation (a front for the big banks going all the way back to 1913) that controls our entire money supply as a ponzi scheme is a FACT.

These truly astounding facts are easily verifiable and yet most people have no clue about it. Most people think we have a permanent money supply, that the president is the true power of the land, and that their government loves them. It's impossible to think this way when we understand the facts. It shatters everything you thought you once knew. Most people don't want to see the messed up reality, and even have a hard time believing it. Truth really is stranger than fiction, that's why it all gets brushed aside as conspiracy theory.

Quote:

But not so angry that I lose hold of my senses and declare Obama, Clinton and the Bushes to be one and the same.

Why is it so hard for you consider this? I realise it's not always so clear cut, and that historically the two parties actually were on opposite sides, but it hasn't been that way for some time. I think the evidence is quite overwhelming that the two parties are working together to keep the public focused on the false left/right wing paradigm, to distract them from the real power acting behind the scenes (ie. the banking cartel and the Fed).
Members of both parties attend the same meetings, are members of the same think tanks and act in each others' interests. Many of them are good friends off the camera. There are certainly factions within the elite, but the end goal is mutual for both sides and they all work together.

Having said that, there are individual members of either party, like Ron Paul, who are not members of the CFR and actually do act in the public's interest. But funny how they never get elected.

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:46 am Post subject:

Quote:

Anyway, you are incorrect to say it's all very out in the open. It's no longer a secret, because it's been exposed and is simply impossible for the elites to deny any more, but it is all very hushed up. The CFR and Trilateral Commission are two of the most important determiners of foreign policy in the US, and yet are almost never mentioned in the mainstream media (except when being brushed aside as conpiracy theory) and most Americans have no idea that they exist! This is all deliberate; the reason these groups are able to operate so effectively is because most people are totally ignorant and buy 100% into the false left/right wing paradigm they have been fed all their lives.

It's not so much that the Trilaterals and CFR per se are the deteminers of foreign-policy, it's that the people who are members of those groups are.

Let me give you an analogy: suppose in some town, there is a country club called the Purple Unicorn, where the mayor, assorted council members, and a few high-ranking bureaucrats gather for drinks every Friday night, and of course they discuss city business and what they wanna do in regards to that.

Now, does that make the Friday Night meetings at the Purple Unicorn a poweful institution within the town? Hardly. Sure, a lot of important business gets discussed there, and in secret, but that doesn't mean that those particular meetings in that particular place are the pivotal factor in determining what those powerful people are gonna do. You could shut the Unicorn down, and it wouldn't make much difference to the ideologies or plans of the town elite. And they certianly wouldn't stop talking to each other, they would likely just increase their use of tele-conferencing, cell-phones, maybe find another bar to hit.

From Wikipedia...

Quote:

Current Chairmen
North America: Joseph S. Nye, Jr., University Distinguished Service Professor and former Dean, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA; former Chair, National Intelligence Council and former U.S. Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs.[7]

Europe: Peter Sutherland, Irish businessman and former politician associated with the Fine Gael party; former Attorney General of Ireland and European Commissioner in the first Delors Commission; former Director General of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, the precursor to the World Trade Organization; Chairman of BP and Goldman Sachs International.[8]

Pacific Asia: Yotaro Kobayashi, Chief Corporate Adviser, Fuji Xerox Company, Ltd.;[9] Board member of Callaway Golf Company, Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation (NTT), Sony Corporation, and American Productivity & Quality Center; life-time trustee of Keizai Doyukai (Japan Association of Corporate Executives); Chairman of the Aspen Institute, Japan.[10][11]

I think we can all assume that the ideology of a Sony Executive is gonna have a lot of overlap with the ideology of an American Assistant Defense Secretary and the ideology of a Goldman Sachs Chariman, regardless of what yak sessions they attend.

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

Quote:

Sorry, but this is not an accurate analogy at all... we sometimes refer the 'establishment' (the elite) as being part of a 'club', but you need not take the notion literally... Anyway, the obvious part you left out in your example is that owner of the Purple Unicorn club is also the owner of the local credit union bank, which also happens to have a monopoly on the money supply in the town, and is the only place the business owners can go to obtain capital. Furthermore, most people in town don't know who the bank owner is, or that the mayor depends on loans from the bank to pay off dept on previous loans (all at interest). Nor do most people know that most of their taxes, which they believe go to city hall, are actually being sent to the banker/Purple Unicorn club owner to pay off the inescapable municipal debt.

The analogy spirals out of control at this point, since structure of power in the USA is complicated and not easily analogized on a small-town level, but I think you get the point: the bankers control everything, and are the common denominator in all the corruption in government. The president and his minions are all just cronies for Wallstreet, selling out the people. Think tanks like the CFR are very organized and well funded, but need to be kept secret to keep the public in the dark and pointing fingers in the wrong direction.

Quote:

From Wikipedia...

Quote:

The only point is that they are working in the interest of the international bankers, namely David Rockefeller. This man, his family, and a select few others like him are veritable criminal kingpins, who have been illegally robbing the American people of their money for generations through the fraud that is the Federal Reserve system. Otherwise I wouldn't consider it any of my business...

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject:

Quote:

The analogy spirals out of control at this point, since structure of power in the USA is complicated and not easily analogized on a small-town level, but I think you get the point: the bankers control everything, and are the common denominator in all the corruption in government. The president and his minions are all just cronies for Wallstreet, selling out the people. Think tanks like the CFR are very organized and well funded, but need to be kept secret to keep the public in the dark and pointing fingers in the wrong direction.

Yes, but even going with your portrayal of gobal political culture, I still don't see how the existence of the Trilateral Commission per se makes a lot of difference. Even if it these meetings weren't being held, the bankers(or whomever else one happens to think controls things) would still wield whatever power they do wield.

Quote:

Anyway, the obvious part you left out in your example is that owner of the Purple Unicorn club is also the owner of the local credit union bank, which also happens to have a monopoly on the money supply in the town, and is the only place the business owners can go to obtain capital.

Well, let's say the banker does own the Unicorn Club, and you somehow manage to get the club shut down. How would that make any difference? Presumably, the banker can just give his marching orders to the town's leaders when they come in to borrow money from him.

Is it your allegation that the Trilateral Commission exists for the purpose of everyone going to the meetings and getting told what to by David Rockefeller? If so, I'm still not clear on why the Commission is neccessary for that. And I'm also not clear as to how the specific make-up of the Commission would facilitate that aim. Why is the vice-president of Sony there, but not the vice-president of Samsung? Is Rockefeller giving orders to Sony, but not Samsung? (And yes, for all I know, someone from Samsung IS on the Trilateral Commission, but you get the point: at any given time, there are lots of large and powerful companies not represented there, which would seem to be a bit of an oversight if the whole point is simply for Rockefeller to give the captains-of-industry their marching orders).

Quote:

Think tanks like the CFR are very organized and well funded, but need to be kept secret to keep the public in the dark and pointing fingers in the wrong direction.

Again, if the CFR is such a big secret, why has it been publishing a magazine since 1922?

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

Quote:

Yes, but a great deal of that power depends on the continued ignorance of the public. Do you really think people would put up with the Federal Reserve System and the fractional reserve banking method that allows these private entities to control our money supply (which constitutionally should be issued by the government itself), if they really knew what was going on? Exposing these activities is the best (and only) way to turn public opinion against them, forcing their hand. Many of these activities are outright illegal, such as the Bilderberg meetings where American statesmen meet foreign interests in secret to discuss government policy.

Quote:

I don't think it's so clear cut; with David Rockefeller the dictator giving orders. It's more of an elite culture unto itself, made up of many powerful families, captains of industry, and politicians. David Rockefeller is simply the patriarch of his family, which happens to be the most powerful of the bunch. His influence is based on his family's control over a great portion of the American banking system. It is this system which is really the problem (not so much Rockefeller personally, though I do think he is a criminal). I have no problem with big business, or even an elite per se, it's the current banking system and the Fed I have a problem with. Their control over the money system is inherently unjust (it's nothing more than a massive fraud, and inherently anti-competetive), and forces all other sectors of the economy into their hands.

All of these think tanks (not just the TC) are geared towards keeping the current corrupt banking system running and strengthening its hold over global finance. If Samsung and Sony want to meet in secret to discuss the future of semiconductor production (as long as it is kept legal), I have no problem. But the relationship between the US government and the international banking system is unconstitutional and just plain criminal on so many levels. It corrupts everything else too, and has almost single handedly destroyed the US economy (exactly what's going on right now).

Quote:

Again, if the CFR is such a big secret, why has it been publishing a magazine since 1922?

Well as far as I can tell, that magazine is just a PR front... True CFR membership ("president's circle") is invitation only and very expensive. Anyway, you're right it's not exactly a "secret", since it would be impossible to keep such an organanization under wraps (even Bilderberg, with only a few hundred people, has a very hard time keeping as low a profile as it would like). But it is all very low key, and almost never mentioned in the mainstream media. The good news is that the info is available, the bad news is that most people have never heard of it.

Here's a rather famous quote attributed to David Rockefeller that sums it up (I can't verify it, but no real reason to doubt it's authenticity):

"� it would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government �� - David Rockefeller in Baden-Baden, Germany 1991.

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:04 am Post subject:

On the Awesome front: Hillary got off the best quip of the week. It went something like this: If John Bolton heard that Obama walked on water, he'd say that it was because Obama couldn't swim. Here's a nice article on the CLINTON DERANGEMENT SYNDROME: http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2009/08/07/clinton/

Kikomom

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: them thar hills--Penna, USA--Zippy is my kid, the teacher in ROK. You can call me Kiko

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:52 am Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

On the Awesome front: Hillary got off the best quip of the week. It went something like this: If John Bolton heard that Obama walked on water, he'd say that it was because Obama couldn't swim.

Or he knows where the rocks are.

The week when it all came together for the Clinton two-for-one package

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:06 am Post subject:

Quote:

Or he knows where the rocks are.

Phooey. You're siding with John Bolton???? Sad

JOHN Bolton???? John BOLTON???? (Because I have a generous mind, I'll attribute your slip to Saturday slows.)

Kikomom

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: them thar hills--Penna, USA--Zippy is my kid, the teacher in ROK. You can call me Kiko

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:40 am Post subject:

> Just an old lame joke (on the priest, the minister, and the rabbi) that would be Bolton's speed. Or the Saturday slows, either one.

bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:22 am Post subject:

ubermenzch wrote:

But not so angry that I lose hold of my senses and declare Obama, Clinton and the Bushes to be one and the same.

Being that I am one of those who has "lost hold of his senses," do me and others a favor and please delineate the significant differences.

I'm all eyes.

jaykimf

Joined: 24 Apr 2004

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:01 pm Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

I'm not an idiot, and I never believe any of that kind of stuff.

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