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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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 Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| But you're going to allow him at least another year right Mises? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
| But you're going to allow him at least another year right Mises? |
The real economy will take a long time to heal. In the US, a meaningful recovering has I think little chance of happening in the next decade.
Obama is not making even the most elementary changes. He is not proposing any useful (for the economy) changes. He is seeding the country for another massive blowup. I don't think a strong understanding of accounting regulations was a "critical skill" needed for his job as a community organizer. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| But you'll allow him at least another year before you condemn him, right? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
| But you'll allow him at least another year before you condemn him, right? |
My opinion on the matter is fluid and will follow the most recent information.
Though I naively believe he will do some right things after the next leg down. We'll see. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| That's good Mises, I presume you'll give him until ....hmmm, maybe March 2010 to make your decision...good call. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
| That's good Mises, I presume you'll give him until ....hmmm, maybe March 2010 to make your decision...good call. |
Bizarre. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| You gotta answer the question or it's not a discussion Mises. Let's make it simple... do you think Obama has sole responsibility for the economy merely 6 months into his term? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
| You gotta answer the question or it's not a discussion Mises. Let's make it simple... do you think Obama has sole responsibility for the economy merely 6 months into his term? |
Rather than talk about who has blame or responsibility for something, isn't it better to talk about how the actions of certain individuals will affect the situation?
Personally, thus far I don't feel Obama's actions will have an overall, lasting positive impact on America's economic situation. I don't think that makes the current state of the economy his fault, but I do think it means he's taking an excellent opportunity for genuine, lasting reform and pissing it away. I feel the same way about the Democratic Party collectively; this is their chance, and they're blowing it.
If my pessimism on the matter is demonstrated to be wrong, I've no problem recanting. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| RufusW wrote: |
| So we're back to this: you're blaming Obama after 6 months and think it's his economy, even though Bush had it for the last 8 years. Hey, what about you give Obama 25% of the chance Bush got - 2 years. |
I don't think any of us are blaming Obama for the economic crisis. What we're blaming him for is the failure to fix things, and just maintaining the status quo. The next economic downturn will fall strictly at his feet. |
I agree. This is a matter of philosophy. The idea of 'too big to fail' and the the idea that every American must own a home and get an education (I''m looking at you Fred, Fan and Sal) has lead to system by which few interests are served. Privatized gains and Socialized losses is the result. These ideas have been around long before Obama and even Bush. We shouldn't blame any one particular person, group of people or political party. A philosophical shift is needed. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| RufusW wrote: |
| You gotta answer the question or it's not a discussion Mises. Let's make it simple... do you think Obama has sole responsibility for the economy merely 6 months into his term? |
Rather than talk about who has blame or responsibility for something, isn't it better to talk about how the actions of certain individuals will affect the situation?
Personally, thus far I don't feel Obama's actions will have an overall, lasting positive impact on America's economic situation. I don't think that makes the current state of the economy his fault, but I do think it means he's taking an excellent opportunity for genuine, lasting reform and pissing it away. I feel the same way about the Democratic Party collectively; this is their chance, and they're blowing it.
If my pessimism on the matter is demonstrated to be wrong, I've no problem recanting. |
I agree with both this and what Pluto says right above. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
As I said before, "Ho hum." All you have to offer is a retread of anti-government spiel. It's been around for decades and is even less interesting because of its repetitiveness. Feel free to engage in your paranoid fantasies.
I hope you check under your bed before you go to sleep. Ya never know what monster is hiding there. |
You accused me of being 'knee-jerk' anti-governmental, and yet the only 'knee jerking' I see is you writing me off as a conspiracist, which I am not.
Bottom line is that you're just too lazy to confirm the facts I've presented you, and that makes you willfully ignorant.
You don't even know what the Federal Reserve is, and that's just sad (as it makes your entire opinion on the economy absolutely worthless). I hope you'll actually make the effort to read up on it and escape your ignorance, but I won't hold my breath... |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
No Mises, it's directed at all silly Cons.
Oh, he hasn't fixed it in 6 months!! C'mon, at least give him half his term to sort it out - you're really going to condemn him after an 8th of his presidency? |
It's not that Obama just hasn't done enough, it's that he's vastly worsened things in such a short time. At the end of Bush's term, the bailouts were just starting, but under Obama this amount has mushroomed into the trillions! He's taken Bush's horrible policy and amplified it a hundred fold, basically allowing the banking cartel (the Fed) to take over the country, signing them a blank check.
Personally I think it is all entirely deliberate (as opposed to mises, who for some reason I can't understand think Obama to be merely incompetent/clueless); but at any rate Obama is presiding over the biggest financial bubble of all time. This bubble will burst, it's simply elementary, and when it does the US economy will be completely devastated. This is not my opinion or a conspiracy, this is an inescapable fact (as well as common sense) that anyone who understands how the Federal Reserve System works will agree with. |
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catchshime
Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Location: "I am not born for one corner; the whole world is my native land."
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Only time will tell - it's been 7 months so far. What would it have been like under McCain? |
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Khenan
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
As I said before, "Ho hum." All you have to offer is a retread of anti-government spiel. It's been around for decades and is even less interesting because of its repetitiveness. Feel free to engage in your paranoid fantasies.
I hope you check under your bed before you go to sleep. Ya never know what monster is hiding there. |
You accused me of being 'knee-jerk' anti-governmental, and yet the only 'knee jerking' I see is you writing me off as a conspiracist, which I am not.
Bottom line is that you're just too lazy to confirm the facts I've presented you, and that makes you willfully ignorant.
You don't even know what the Federal Reserve is, and that's just sad (as it makes your entire opinion on the economy absolutely worthless). I hope you'll actually make the effort to read up on it and escape your ignorance, but I won't hold my breath... |
Your entire argument (this quote and the last) are based solely on ad hominem attacks. They are utterly ridiculous. I'm not saying I agree with everything Ya-Ta is saying, but good lord - have some self-respect! Christ, you have ad hominems based on ad hominems. Seriously! You do - and if you think this is just some conspiracy passed down to us by the Greeks, then I think it best if you just stepped out of the voting pool, thank you. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| Khenan wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
As I said before, "Ho hum." All you have to offer is a retread of anti-government spiel. It's been around for decades and is even less interesting because of its repetitiveness. Feel free to engage in your paranoid fantasies.
I hope you check under your bed before you go to sleep. Ya never know what monster is hiding there. |
You accused me of being 'knee-jerk' anti-governmental, and yet the only 'knee jerking' I see is you writing me off as a conspiracist, which I am not.
Bottom line is that you're just too lazy to confirm the facts I've presented you, and that makes you willfully ignorant.
You don't even know what the Federal Reserve is, and that's just sad (as it makes your entire opinion on the economy absolutely worthless). I hope you'll actually make the effort to read up on it and escape your ignorance, but I won't hold my breath... |
Your entire argument (this quote and the last) are based solely on ad hominem attacks. They are utterly ridiculous. I'm not saying I agree with everything Ya-Ta is saying, but good lord - have some self-respect! Christ, you have ad hominems based on ad hominems. Seriously! You do - and if you think this is just some conspiracy passed down to us by the Greeks, then I think it best if you just stepped out of the voting pool, thank you. |
Right. Stick a sock it in. You don't even know what an ad hominem is, so just keep your pretentious latinisms to yourself please. And look up the word 'hypocrisy' while you're at it... |
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