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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Israel's enemies are (far) more comparable to the nazis than Israel is.
The occupation would be over if Arafat had accepted Bill Clinton's peace plan.
The Palestinian side doesn't say they will stop attacking Israel if Israel ends the occupation.
The West Bank is a war zone. Just as soon as the Palestinian side says they will renounce military action against Israel if Israel withdraws your argument will be stronger.
Both sides ought to give up their war, not just one side unconditionally. |
Whatever man... If you actually believe what Israel's government says, then I think you're being naive. I'll agree that both sides are governed by ruthless people who are better at killing people than trying to negotiate. But in real terms, what the Israelis put the Palestinians through is just unreal; truly barbaric. The same cannot be said about what the Israelis are put through. I'm just talking about day to day life, with real people, not BS diplomacy by the governments. |
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Israelis put the Palestinians through is just unreal; truly barbaric. |
Probably, but probably not worse than what other mideast regimes have done to the other side in war . In the mideast "Hama rules"
Hama was a city in Syria that rose up against Assad in 1982. Assad responded leveling the city killing 20,000 in two weeks , when he was done he built a new city on top of the old city and no one in the mideast said a word.
You know what Saddam Hussein did in war don't you?
And the Sudan
Algeria.
See the Iran / Iraq war
so Israel sucks I will give you that, but they behave than their enemies during war.
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| The same cannot be said about what the Israelis are put through. |
True though if the Israelis were on the losing end they would probably get just as bad or worse.
And it is not like the Palestinian side isn't out to do it. End of occupation for end of war.
I hope this thread isn't like the case of a white police officer just being on the look out for non white criminals and ignoring the crimes of whites.
that is not justice. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| That's right. All the money in the world cannot buy a justification for Israel to exist when there is none. |
Sort of but for now there is a a good reason for Israel now. That Bathists , Khomeni followers or Al Qaedists can't be trusted to govern or protect their minorities.
As I have said it would be great if the entire mideast accepted liberal democracy. |
I sure hope you are including Israel in that since it is not a democracy now but rather an apartheid state with second-class Palestinians living in a Swiss-cheese amalgam of bantustans having to pass through checkpoints everywhere if they want to move at all.
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| Open up a church in Iran lately? |
Been Palestinian in Israel, the West Bank, or Gaza lately?
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Reality Check:
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Disruption of Mandaean family life: forced marriage and sexual assault
In her most recent report to Amnesty International, Professor J.J. Buckley -- an internationally recognised specialist on the Mandaean religion -- has stressed that �the attempt to destroy Mandaean families is increasing, but with a particular focus on women and young girls.� The Mandaean Human Rights Committee has also documented that the Iranian authorities attempt to break up Mandaean families with a particular focus on women and children, pressuring them to convert to Islam and pressuring women to marry Moslem men. Further reports, including those produced by ASUTA (the Journal for the Study and Research into the Mandaean Culture, Religion and Language) indicate that Mandaean parents fear that their children will be kidnapped, and forcibly circumcised, converted to Islam, raped or forcibly married. Regarding the rape of Mandaean girls and women, several reports suggest that Islamic judges would hold that a Moslem male who raped a Mandaean female would be understood to have �purified� her. Accordingly, the Sabian Mandaean Association reports that Mandaean girls have been raped with impunity by Moslem men. |
http://www.iranian.com/BTW/2005/July/Mandaean/index.html
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Here we can agree. Any society which forces circumcision upon children is to be resisted.
Reality check:
Israel Evicts Palestinians From Homes
By ISABEL KERSHNER
Published: August 2, 2009
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JERUSALEM � Israeli security forces evicted two Palestinian families from their homes in East Jerusalem early Sunday after the families lost a long legal battle to remain in the contested properties, furthering a plan for Jewish settlement in the predominantly Arab area.
As soon as the Palestinians had been forcibly removed from the houses, Jewish nationalists moved in, witnesses said. |
Now you know it in your heart of hearts. It will never be the same again no matter what you post. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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="bacasper"][[quote]
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bantustans having to pass through checkpoints everywhere if they want to move at all.
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Cause it is a war zone.
Israel's enemies are apartheid states. And the apartheid they practice is more severe.
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Been Palestinian in Israel, the West Bank, or Gaza lately? |
No , but it seems clear that the Palestinian side is out to do the same or worse to the Israeli side.
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Now you know it in your heart of hearts. It will never be the same again no matter what you post |
You go that wrong I am aware of Israel's faults but I also know that the Palestinian side it out to do the same or worse .
Anyway , just to add balance to this thread I will continue with references to the records of Saddam Hussein, Ayatollah Khomeni , Assad and a few others. Wanna make a bet on which side comes out looking worse?
That is where this conversation is now going to go. Do you think I am going to have a problem with a shortage of info?
I don't like Israel but I think their enemies are clearly worse. I think a thread with balance to set the record straight is a good thing. What do you think? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Start your own thread if you want to do that,
OR to stay on topic,
choose one of "your" governments and show how it has attacked a human rights group. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
Start your own thread if you want to do that,
OR to stay on topic,
choose one of "your" governments and show how it has attacked a human rights group. |
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/672301
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Iran threatening human rights lawyers, group alleges
Jul 27, 2009 08:58 AM
Comments on this story (
Katarina Kratovac
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
CAIRO � Iranian authorities are spreading fear by arresting prominent human rights lawyers to prevent them from representing protesters detained in the aftermath of the country's disputed presidential election, a leading international rights group said. |
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Human rights
Libya blocks visit by rights group
afrol News, 7 December - The Libyan government has blocked a scheduled visit by a research team from the US group Human Rights Watch. The team was slated to begin a three-week fact-finding trip on Tuesday, but the government of Libya has withheld the visas, the group said today. The Americans were to look into continued problems of torture, political trials and the treatment of immigrants. |
http://www.afrol.com/articles/14934
3 Aid Workers, Driver Killed in Taliban Attack
SLIDESHOW
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An Afghan paramedical staff nais down the coffin containing the body of a foreign aid worker in a hospital in Pul-e-Alam in Logar province, Afghanistan, Wednesday, Aug. 13, 2008. Gunmen wielding assault rifles ambushed a U.S. aid organization's vehicle in Logar province, south of Kabul, on Wednesday, killing an American-Trinidadian aid worker along with a Canadian and a B |
ritish-Canadian colleague, officials said. (AP Photo/Rafiq Maqbool)
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Afghan nurses cover bodies of foreign aid workers in white cloth shroud before placing them in wooden coffins in a hospital in Pul-e-Alam in Logar province, Afghanistan, Wednesday, Aug. 13, 2008. Gunmen wielding assault rifles ambushed a U.S. aid organization's vehicle in the province south of Kabul on Wednesday, killing an American-Trinidadian aid worker along with a Canadian and a British-Canadian colleague, officials said. (AP Photo/Rafiq Maqbool) |
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By Candace Rondeaux and Nora Boustany
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, August 14, 2008; Page A07
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, Aug. 13 -- Three Western women employed by a New York-based aid agency were killed along with their Afghan driver Wednesday by Taliban insurgents who ambushed their vehicle as it traveled south of the Afghan capital, Kabul. |
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Aid worker shot dead by Taliban militants in Pakistan
Pro-Taliban militants have shot dead an American aid worker and his driver in Pakistan in the latest incident in an increasingly brazen series of attacks |
Hey Casper I don't see North Korea giving Human rights Watch any problems. Why do you think that is?
Anyway Human rights
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Some 300,000 Saddam opponents believed buried in 263 mass graves across Iraq
Author:
BASSEM MROUE and NIKO PRICE, Associated Press Writers Copyright |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:59 am Post subject: |
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That is much better.
ALL countries should respect human rights.
Even North Korea. What does HRW say about them, Joo? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
That is much better.
ALL countries should respect human rights.
Even North Korea. What does HRW say about them, Joo? |
I agree all countries ought to respect human rights . The worst violators and the start of the war against terror
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Algeria's place at the head of the abusers' list was earned through its record for torture and extrajudicial killings - numbering 80,000 since the military junta cancelled democratic elections in 1992.
Behind Algeria, on a score of 110.55, come North Korea, Burma, Indonesia, Libya, Colombia, Syria, Iraq, Yugoslavia and China. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and Nigeria follow closely. The United Kingdom comes 141st; a good score on a global basis but not so admirable when compared with other rich, industrialised countries - we are seventh out of 23.
The 'loser' - the country where recorded abuse of human rights scores 0.78 - is Tuvalu.
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It scores 10 out of 10 on denial of majority rights because of gassing the Kurds.
A country with a wretched record of human rights abuse could score a maximum total of 190. Saddam Hussein's Iraq proves the winner of the unmodified list - which measures human rights abuses outside of their economic context - with an unadjusted score of 155.
International sanctions and the legacy of Saddam's two wars against Iraq and the United Nations over Kuwait, which have crippled Iraq, give it a low rating on the UN's human development index. Iraq's new-found impoverishment catapults it down the list, leaving Algeria in poll position. |
http://www.algeria-watch.org/mrv/mrvrap/observe4.htm |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| Some good work here, Joo. But I feel you're debasing yourself by giving the arguments of the anti-Israel crowd a moment's consideration. There are two kinds of folks one should never debate: creationists and anti-Israel whackos. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Some good work here, Joo. But I feel you're debasing yourself by giving the arguments of the anti-Israel crowd a moment's consideration. There are two kinds of folks one should never debate: creationists and anti-Israel whackos. |
Mi scusi, Signore Stefanuto. Sorry, if my facts disturbed your ideology.
And by calling Jews Against Zionism "anti-Israel whackos," you are now the anti-Semite.
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| RJjr wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| E_athlete wrote: |
| I wish some country would nuke that Israel a couple times over. |
Anti-Semitism and advocating genocide in the same sentence.
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Confusing Israel with "the Jews" and genocide with military attack all in the same sentence. |
The callous lack of concern for the 20% of Israelis who are Arab was particularly telling.
And somehow, http://www2.badtux.net/uploaded_images/iraq-dad-dead-daughter-707921.jpg is considered acceptable since the girl wasn't Jewish. |
The callous lack of concern for the 80% of Israelis who are Jewish is even more particularly telling by about 400%...since we are going by percentages. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| RJjr wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| E_athlete wrote: |
| I wish some country would nuke that Israel a couple times over. |
Anti-Semitism and advocating genocide in the same sentence.
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Confusing Israel with "the Jews" and genocide with military attack all in the same sentence. |
The callous lack of concern for the 20% of Israelis who are Arab was particularly telling. |
Thanks for adding that. I realized after I'd responded that I should have included that. |
Irrevelant. I said that EVERYONE in the country would be killed. I THEN specifically cited the Jews (not out of concern) but simply to show the anti_Semitism.
And before you jump on the band wagon and state these Israeli Arabs are Semites too, I was using the term in the sense it is usually applied in (Google it and find out) as it indicates a hatred of specifically Jews. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| E_athlete wrote: |
| I wish some country would nuke that Israel a couple times over. |
Anti-Semitism and advocating genocide in the same sentence.
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Confusing Israel with "the Jews" and genocide with military attack all in the same sentence. |
LOL |
Your amusement at the prospect of millions of innocent civilians being killed whether Jewish or Arab (citing "Arab" for the reading comprehension challenged) is particularly telling and chilling. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| RJjr wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| E_athlete wrote: |
| I wish some country would nuke that Israel a couple times over. |
Anti-Semitism and advocating genocide in the same sentence.
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Confusing Israel with "the Jews" and genocide with military attack all in the same sentence. |
The callous lack of concern for the 20% of Israelis who are Arab was particularly telling. |
Thanks for adding that. I realized after I'd responded that I should have included that. |
Irrevelant. I said that EVERYONE in the country would be killed. I THEN specifically cited the Jews (not out of concern) but simply to show the anti_Semitism. |
OK, people, there we have it straight from the horse's mouth.
You were well aware of the one million Arabs living in Israel, but you showed your disdain for them by deliberately choosing to only mention anti-Semitism and not anti-Arabism in your post.
Quite telling. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| RJjr wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| E_athlete wrote: |
| I wish some country would nuke that Israel a couple times over. |
Anti-Semitism and advocating genocide in the same sentence.
|
Confusing Israel with "the Jews" and genocide with military attack all in the same sentence. |
The callous lack of concern for the 20% of Israelis who are Arab was particularly telling. |
Thanks for adding that. I realized after I'd responded that I should have included that. |
Irrelevant. I said that EVERYONE in the country would be killed. I THEN specifically cited the Jews (not out of concern) but simply to show the anti_Semitism. |
OK, people, there we have it straight from the horse's mouth.
You were well aware of the one million Arabs living in Israel, but you showed your disdain for them by deliberately choosing to only mention anti-Semitism and not anti-Arabism in your post.
Quite telling. |
What "anti-Arabism"? Is that even a word/term? And how is talking about killing 1 million Arabs living in a NON-Arab country..."anti-Arabism" when the tens of millions of Arabs living in Arab countries are untouched?
Regardless it's still extremely inappropriate and against the TOS. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:06 am Post subject: Re: Israel attacks Human Rights Watch |
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| bacasper wrote: |
While not so surprising, it is still outrageous.
Israel Seeks Ways to Silence Human Rights Groups
By Jonathan Cook - Nazareth
In a bid to staunch the flow of damaging evidence of war crimes committed during Israel's winter assault on Gaza, the Israeli government has launched a campaign to clamp down on human rights groups, both in Israel and abroad.
It has begun by targeting one of the world�s leading rights organisations, the US-based Human Rights Watch (HRW), as well as a local group of dissident army veterans, Breaking the Silence, which last month published the testimonies of 26 combat soldiers who served in Gaza.
Additionally, according to the Israeli media, the government is planning a �much more aggressive stance� towards human rights groups working to help the Palestinians.
Officials have questioned the sources of funding received by the organisations and threatened legislation to ban support from foreign governments, particularly in Europe.
Breaking the Silence and other Israeli activists have responded by accusing the government of a �witch hunt� designed to intimidate them and starve them of the funds needed to pursue their investigations.
�This is a very dangerous step,� said Mikhael Mannekin, one of the directors of Breaking the Silence. �Israel is moving in a very anti-democratic direction.�
The campaign is reported to be the brainchild of the far-right foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, currently facing corruption charges, but has the backing of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
full article at link |
So HRW takes funds from the Saudi government and they can't see why Israel would have a problem with that. Does that about sum up the article? |
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