Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Dodgy Al]

I'm looking at a chart from 2005 listing the number of high schools in Seoul. Here's a summary:

Total number of high schools: 308

Academic: 214
Vocational: 78
Other: 16

I'm left puzzled by this, and was hoping someone more knowledgeable than myself would know the answers to these questions:

1. What's up with the general high schools? Are they classified as 'academic' too?
2. Would a commercial high come under 'vocational' or 'other'?
3. Also, I don't think this chart includes private high schools. Any ideas how many of those there are?

[giraffe]

thats interesting.

i Asked my wife about korean highschools before . She only talked to me about 2 kinds. The kind of highschool with students who plan to go to universities and the one where they plan to just get a job out of highschool. Dont really know much else but i thought it was interesting they had seperate schools for this. You'd think everyone got the same basic highschool education.

[Dodgy Al]

I think the type of school a student goes to depends on their high school entrance exam score. It has changed a little so that schools also take other things (like school record) into account, but I believe that is still the main factor. One of my students got a score of 31%, whereas she needed a score above 25% to get into her first choice. Not sure what the entry requirements are for general or academic high schools. Still too much focus on exams, in my opinion.

Also, I believe the division between schools focused on sending kids to uni and those sending students to work is not so distinct anymore. I heard that unis are obliged to offer a certain number of places to non-academic hs students. Not sure how accurate that info is though, but one of my co-teachers told me some students have cottoned on to this and are going to non-academic schools, in order to get an easy way into uni. Again, I'm not sure how much truth there is to that, but it is interesting how the system is changing. Some might even say it's dynamic.

While digging for more info, I came across an article from KEDI (Korean Educational Development Institute). I haven't read it all yet, but it kind of answers my questions above. If you're interested, follow the link below.

http://eng.kedi.re.kr/09_edu/img/koredu/Vol.%201_%20School%20Curriculum%20in%20Korea.pdf

[winterfall]

Korean kids started being phased out to different tracks after elementary school. They can get out of the placement during middle school. But its very difficult.

By the time they get to high school. If the kid is still in a vocational program. It's permanent.

The high school entrance exams are for the university track kids. It determines which high school they can get into. The more prestigious the high school. The better footing the kids have for getting into the top 3 Korean universities.

This was the case for my generation. The Late 80's, though I've been hearing that most high schools have been eliminating the entrance exams.

America has the same thing except vocational training starts in High School. With the different 'Tracks'. Track 1 kids are headed to good school. Track 2 are going to community college. And Track 3 aren't going anywhere.

[Dodgy Al]

They definitely still place high importance on high-school entrance exams. And not just academic schools. What I didn't realise is that students have to decide so early what they want to do for the rest of their lives. Middle school?? sheesh, I could barely tie my own shoe-laces by then! How depressing.

[Random thought: They should close the top 3 unis for a year or two - just to level the playing field a bit. That would be a fun experiment!]

Anyways, I found another article that you may find interesting. More of the same from KEDI... a little more up-to-date.

http://eng.kedi.re.kr/09_edu/img/GeneralInfo/Education%20in%20Korea%202007-2008.pdf

[iggyb]

I don't know how much this is still the case --- I'm judging by my teaching in hakwons from 96-2000 and from my wife's experience.

Vocational education in Korea is much different than in the US. I believe they actually learn a trade and graduate with skills they can use in the market place. My wife graduated from a vocational high school with training in accounting and bookkeeping which got her employed as she saved up enough money to go to college even though she hadn't been on that track.

Korean schools are also not limited in geographic area - school districts - where most all students have to go. When I worked in Wonju and had to teach factory workers in a nearby town - about 20 minutes or so away - I shared the bus with loads of high school and middle school kids heading to the same town to go to the vocational school.

I don't know how uniform education is in each major category. My impression was that college prep schools were generally the same but vocational schools could tend to specialize in certain fields and many students went to a certain school based on their aptitude or affinity for those type of skills....at least that was the idea I got from talking to students and adults over the years...

From what I heard about the vocational system in Korea, I've thought the US would be better off if it reformed in that direction. I think if you could force it through, it would only take 10 years or so before the strong opposition to it would cave in --- as parents started seeing their kids and neighbor's kids graduating with computer repair, construction, accounting, whatever skills and making $25,000+ a year right away.

[T-dot]

As far as I know there are about 5 different type of High Schools;

International
Foreign Language (Wago)
Academic
Technical (repairman etc...)
Commercial (secretary etc...)

Every area also has different tiers of academic HS's and FLHS's. Categories are changing because a few schools are converting to to a specialized academic curriculum (jaripyung).

Every parent and teacher knows the best schools and the worst schools in the area; just go by the banners in front of the high school. The more S.K.Y and Overseas bound students, better the HS.

[iggyb]

I just finished a MA-T (Teaching) program here in the US, and we occasionally talked about school reform, and some mentioned opening up choice in school - which I thought sounded like in Korea - not the "voucher" program that would help some go to private schools but just choice in schools not based on what school district you were in.

With Korea, they can do that better given the large amount of transportation and transportation options that are fairly cheap. The US doesn't have that...

[winterfall]

Unlike America. For Korea as far as I know. It's not by choice. They get seperated by their standarized test scores begining in Middle School.

Most of my Korean friends said they didn't end up going to the same middle school as their childhood friends. Unless they try to keep in touch with each other. Then it won't happen. The vocational and academic schools are in different districts.

[T-dot]

[iggyb]

I also got the impression in the past that there was some choice despite the power of the test scores: You couldn't go to a college prep school if you weren't in a certain percentage of the top scorers, but you could choose between different schools on the level you were "qualified" for - and that this was important concerning vocational schools because different ones had somewhat different key focus areas.

[T-dot]

Still kinda works that way in academic schools.

For every 1 elite academic school in a specific gu, there are at least 5 low-mid level academic schools.

Within the school, the students get divided again based on the exam scores of the following semester.

The only students that I know that can pick the school of their own choosing are the ones just returning from overseas.

High end schools only care for 1 thing; placement into prestigious universities within Korea and abroad.

[orangepostit]

It used to be that students would graduate and 85% of them could get a job. Now-a-days the Korean education system forces students to get more education and credentials (as is often the case in the west).

My coteachers stated that now only about 5-10% of students get a job after graduating. Most continue their education in a community college.

I'm surprised that the number of vocational high schools in Seoul is so high.

[Epicurus]

shouldn't be surprised by high no. of vocational high schools.

how many of those students belong or can get into an academically challenging university? (though I hear in Korea that's an oxy-moron)

basically I've been told there ar 3 types of vocationa schools

a) technical - these will be overwhelmingly male
b) commercial - focuses on sales and admin stuff, overwhelmingly female
c) agrictultural - don't know what the gender division is.

[maingman]

By the time they get to high school. If the kid is still in a vocational program. It's permanent.