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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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 Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject: US Health Care |
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Obama defends healthcare plans, criticizes insurers
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GRAND JUNCTION, Colorado (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama reignited his criticism of health insurance companies on Saturday, promising reforms that would prevent firms from capping coverage or charging "outrageous" fees.
Traveling to a conservative area of Colorado, a western state that supported Obama in the 2008 election, the president continued his assault on companies that the White House has painted as being at the root of the country's healthcare woes while defending his proposals to fix the system.
"Insurance companies will no longer be able to ... place an arbitrary cap on the amount of coverage you can receive or charge outrageous out-of-pocket expenses on top of your premiums," Obama told the crowd of roughly 1,500 people.
"No one in America should go broke because they get sick," he said to loud applause. |
(More inside link below:)
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE57D47P20090816
An interesting, alternate report, here:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/15/obama.health.care/ |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Some of the utter hypocrisy of health care reform opponents handily showcased. This Republican Congressman can't muster up anything but talking points and attempts to change the topic when confronted with it. I suspect almost any enemy of health care reform would quickly end up resorting to similar tactics. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:57 am Post subject: |
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More on healthcare:
http://www.truthout.org/081609A?n
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| They came in their thousands, queuing through the night to secure one of the coveted wristbands offering entry into a strange parallel universe where medical care is a free and basic right and not an expensive luxury. Some of these Americans had walked miles simply to have their blood pressure checked, some had slept in their cars in the hope of getting an eye-test or a mammogram, others had brought their children for immunisations that could end up saving their life. |
Interview with Stan Brock, who's been organising remote area medical care events in America for 20 years:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm5aGhrzrVk |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:43 am Post subject: Health Care |
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| You forgot to add the part "woman gives birth on pavement", which makes the ambulance refusal, even more shocking. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:10 am Post subject: |
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This is in the daily mail then it must be true. It's not like that paper would ever print right wing scare mongering trash is it?
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I just don't understand why Britons accept this! |
Well ya, in the US an Ambulance would certainly take you to the hospital if you needed one. However just make sure you've a couple of hundred dollars lying around to pay for the service. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| blade wrote: |
This is in the daily mail then it must be true. It's not like that paper would ever print right wing scare mongering trash is it? |
ad hominem fallacy
Best of luck with the whole formal logic lark, bro
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Well ya, in the US an Ambulance would certainly take you to the hospital if you needed one. However just make sure you've a couple of hundred dollars lying around to pay for the service. |
Aw, jeez....what a scholar.
EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE COVERED
Britain's NHS? Helping a pregnant woman? They just couldn't be arsed. |
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seonsengnimble
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
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| Guess which country? |
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| This is in the daily mail then it must be true. It's not like that paper would ever print right wing scare mongering trash is it? |
ad hominem fallacy
Best of luck with the whole formal logic lark, bro
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This isn't ad hominem. Ad hominem is when you say an idea is wrong because a proponent of the idea has done bad things. While this is an attack on a proponent of an idea, it is an attack based on the reliability of the source.
Ad hominem would be claiming the article is false because an editor of the daily mail was arrested for drug possession. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
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| Guess which country? |
| Quote: |
| This is in the daily mail then it must be true. It's not like that paper would ever print right wing scare mongering trash is it? |
ad hominem fallacy
Best of luck with the whole formal logic lark, bro
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This isn't ad hominem. Ad hominem is when you say an idea is wrong because a proponent of the idea has done bad things. While this is an attack on a proponent of an idea, it is an attack based on the reliability of the source.
Ad hominem would be claiming the article is false because an editor of the daily mail was arrested for drug possession. |
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ad%20hominem |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
More on healthcare:
http://www.truthout.org/081609A?n
| Quote: |
| They came in their thousands, queuing through the night to secure one of the coveted wristbands offering entry into a strange parallel universe where medical care is a free and basic right and not an expensive luxury. Some of these Americans had walked miles simply to have their blood pressure checked, some had slept in their cars in the hope of getting an eye-test or a mammogram, others had brought their children for immunisations that could end up saving their life. |
Interview with Stan Brock, who's been organising remote area medical care events in America for 20 years:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm5aGhrzrVk |
Yep, the far right has been tell us that the number of people in the US without insurance is so high because these people choose not to buy health insurance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9JmEHsCv4c
Pretty shameful that a charity that delivers health care to the third world has found a need to operate in a first world nation like the United States. |
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seonsengnimble
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
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| Guess which country? |
| Quote: |
| This is in the daily mail then it must be true. It's not like that paper would ever print right wing scare mongering trash is it? |
ad hominem fallacy
Best of luck with the whole formal logic lark, bro
|
This isn't ad hominem. Ad hominem is when you say an idea is wrong because a proponent of the idea has done bad things. While this is an attack on a proponent of an idea, it is an attack based on the reliability of the source.
Ad hominem would be claiming the article is false because an editor of the daily mail was arrested for drug possession. |
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ad%20hominem |
Yes, I know what ad hominem is. The point is that the attack was on the quality of the source, not the character of the one making the argument.
If someone quotes the Weekly World News or the Onion, and someone argues against the validity of the source, is this ad hominem? |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Guess which country? |
| Quote: |
| This is in the daily mail then it must be true. It's not like that paper would ever print right wing scare mongering trash is it? |
ad hominem fallacy
Best of luck with the whole formal logic lark, bro
|
This isn't ad hominem. Ad hominem is when you say an idea is wrong because a proponent of the idea has done bad things. While this is an attack on a proponent of an idea, it is an attack based on the reliability of the source.
Ad hominem would be claiming the article is false because an editor of the daily mail was arrested for drug possession. |
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ad%20hominem |
Yes, I know what ad hominem is. The point is that the attack was on the quality of the source, not the character of the one making the argument.
If someone quotes the Weekly World News or the Onion, and someone argues against the validity of the source, is this ad hominem? |
If a counterclaim is made against the people, or the institution making the claim - and not against the claim itself - then yes, that would be a classic example of ad hominem.
Hitler claims X
Bob says "well, if Hitler says it, it must be true" (sarcastically) |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:53 am Post subject: |
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I thought that was 100 miles until I clicked on the link. 100 metres? That's across the road!! I agree it shouldn't have happened, but it's hardly an indictment of the entire NHS. |
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