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doc_ido
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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 Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Fortunately, when we're talking about long-term immigration and cultural trends one guy's opinion is not statistically significant. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| doc_ido wrote: |
| Fortunately, when we're talking about long-term immigration and cultural trends one guy's opinion is not statistically significant. |
The trend is clear.
Reminded me of this:
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=7856
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Gay people in Holland have been shocked by a public attack on a gay man in Amsterdam.
Model Mike Du Pree was taking part in a fashion show to promote tolerance towards gay people when a gang of ten Muslim youths dragged him from the catwalk and beat him.
A right wing Dutch MP has called for the youths to be deported.
Mr Du Pree's nose was broken in the attack, which was motivated by homophobia.
The fashion event was held on a public holiday marking the birth of Holland's late Queen Julianna.
The attack happened at the end of April. A story on US-based website Gay Patriot brought it to wider attention.
Newspaper Gay Krant reports that a bystander intervened as the model was being beaten and a fight erupted.
Fashion show organiser Jennifer Delano told the paper that the atmosphere at the event was tense, and that the violence shows Amsterdam is no longer a tolerant city.
"Mike got dragged down by his arm," she said.
"They pinched him, he defended himself and then the guys of immigrant background started to hit him."
Police arrived on the scene but it is unclear whether the ten homophobic Muslim youths were arrested or charged.
MPs have raised the incident in Parliament.
"This shows how strong the Islamic gay bashers feel they are," said Party of Freedom MP Martin Bosma.
"Even at daylight, on Queen�s Day, in the heart of Amsterdam, they strike.
"Only the hardest measures could turn this sick trend.
"The Dutch nationality of the gay bashers of Rembrandt Square should immediately be taken from them and they should be expelled from the country today.
"The Netherlands can show no mercy for these people who damage our society in this way. Either they will win, or we will win."
In December the mayor of Amsterdam commissioned academics to study a spate of attacks on gay people in the city.
A substantial increase in homophobic attacks in the capital has been reported over the last few years.
More than half of Dutch gays feel less safe than they did a year ago, a survey carried out in August by current affairs programme EenVandaag revealed.
Sixty-four per cent of anti-gay incidents were verbal but 12 per cent resulted in physical abuse.
Amsterdam's image in the Netherlands as the 'gay capital of the world' is also under threat as the survey revealed gays there were more fearful than in other parts of country. |
and this:
http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_2_pim-fortuyn.html
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| One measure of the dimensions of this shift: owing to the rise in gay-bashings by Muslim youths, Dutch gays�who ten years ago constituted a reliable left-wing voting bloc�now support conservative parties by a nearly two-to-one margin. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| doc_ido wrote: |
| Fortunately, when we're talking about long-term immigration and cultural trends one guy's opinion is not statistically significant. |
in this case, we're not so much worried about "one guy's opinion" as much as we are worried about his act of physical violence.
Also, perhaps the fact that muslim immigrants' overrepresentation in many forms of criminal activity is "statistically significant"? You're correct insomuch as one hate crime is not "statistically significant", but a distinct pattern of behavior among certain inhabitants of geographic and religious areas in some European suburbs is absolutely indicative of a trend that is "statistically significant" for reasons I will leave to a more venturesome poster. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the best remedy is to burn down a local mosque and leave a sign that says "This is an enlightened European country" |
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cwflaneur
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| I think the best remedy is to burn down a local mosque and leave a sign that says "This is an enlightened European country" |
Sounds like you don't want to face with the fact that there is even a problem.
How about doing as the Dutch parliamentarian in the article proposed - revoke the citizenship of recent immigrants who behave in violent anti-secular / intolerant behavior, instead? Would that measure of self-defence on the part of a secular society be equivalent to burning down a mosque in your view? |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| You people confuse me. |
No, you confuse yourself. You complain about religious and racial diversity when discussing brown people, black people and Muslims. Yet, you think people should tolerate diversity when discussing whites, people of the Jewish religion, and homosexuals.
| ED209 wrote: |
| But I'm sure there are plenty of non-Muslim places that wouldn't tolerate two gay men holding hands. |
Exactly. If you're openly gay (or Muslim either, for that matter), you had better the Hell not go to a Baptist church, a NASCAR event, a KKK rally, or some rural towns in the southern United States.
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Somali immigrants - whose chief export is perhaps female genital mutilation |
What's your opinion of this? http://www.mohelmd.com/ceremony.html |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:29 am Post subject: |
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Isn't it mind-boggling how people can be so up in arms over female genital mutilation, but deafeningly silent when it comes to males?
It is a barbaric procedure for either sex, and leads to a lifetime of decreased sexual pleasure at best, i.e. if they avoid the bleeding, infections, and all the other possible complications.
I think that mohel is lying on his website. Infants are generally considered to be at risk from anaesthesia, and the procedure is usually done without it. Some even claim, idiotically, that infants feel no pain! I don't know what they think that ear-piercing cry coming from the infant is supposed to represent. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Aw, how cute. A relativist! Moral equivalence! I really can't believe you're asking.
Well, firstly, if Jews have a problem with the mutilation of their boys' genitals, it can't possibly be the case that Somalis have a problem mutilating their girls' genitals, eh?
RJjr logic: Airbus cannot possibly have issues with its planes' computer systems......because Boeing has crashes too!
RJjr logic: Bob has a drinking problem. Oh, no, hang on, no he doesn't. Why not? Because John is a heavy drinker too!
Brilliant!
Secondly, aside from the fact that you've changed the subject, there's the problem of invalid comparison. Two fallacies in one! Whilst I don't approve of male circumcision, there is obviously no equivalence between that and FGM (for the clear reason that circumcized males are still able to enjoy sex). Also - though perhaps tenuously, I'm not sure - there are health reasons cited for male circumcision, whereas none are remotely available in the case of removing girls' pleasure buttons. It is so that they remain virgins until the night of their marriage. Personally, if I lost my foreskin, I could live with it. I don't want to, but it wouldn't be a massive sacrifice. Actually, I considered it when I considered converting to Judiasm. Ask a woman could she sacrifice her clit and live pretty much as she does. The clit isn't equivalent to a foreskin; indeed, it's equivalent to the whole head of the *beep*.
Suggesting equivalence between male and female genital mutilation is like suggesting equivalence between a hydrogen bomb and a Swiss army knife. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Suggesting equivalence between male and female genital mutilation is like suggesting equivalence between a hydrogen bomb and a Swiss army knife. |
Poor analogy.
First, I didn't say they were necessarily equivalent, but they are both barbaric.
OTOH, I bet "the boy raised as a girl," who was the result of a botched circumcision, would have preferred they used the "hydrogen bomb" equivalent on him.
He was actually lucky. Others have died from the procedure. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Isn't it mind-boggling how people can be so up in arms over female genital mutilation, but deafeningly silent when it comes to males? |
Non-minority males have traditionally been paid very little attention by civil rights groups. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
First, I didn't say they were necessarily equivalent, but they are both barbaric.
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The lack of moral or medical equivalence is the explanation for the lack of equivalence in people's hostile reaction towards the respective practises. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
First, I didn't say they were necessarily equivalent, but they are both barbaric.
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The lack of moral or medical equivalence is the explanation for the lack of equivalence in people's hostile reaction towards the respective practises. |
One could argue that the lot of males is closer to home, since that is the one which occurs, not to mention rampantly, in America. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| I'm snipped and I still enjoy getting laid. Is this true of women who have undergone female circumcision? |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
First, I didn't say they were necessarily equivalent, but they are both barbaric.
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The lack of moral or medical equivalence is the explanation for the lack of equivalence in people's hostile reaction towards the respective practises. |
One could argue that the lot of males is closer to home, since that is the one which occurs, not to mention rampantly, in America. |
Somali immigrants is the present discussion |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| No, you confuse yourself. You complain about religious and racial diversity when discussing brown people, black people and Muslims. Yet, you think people should tolerate diversity when discussing whites, people of the Jewish religion, and homosexuals. |
Got it. Who mentioned racial diversity. Anyways. So you people think that islam = racial diversity. To expand, if we do not tolerate "racial diversity" (meaning cultural diversity, but really meaning islam) then we're not tolerating "brown people, black people and muslims".
Ok. That's quite muddled. I guess this is the product of a subpar liberal arts education now. Let's help you. islam is an idea. Not a race. An idea. Not a race. An idea. Not a race. An idea. Not a race.
Just an idea. And there is no reason to "tolerate" an idea. For example, I could write a book that says you're hated by "god" and need to be skinned like a goat. I could repeat this claim for 300 pages. Over and over again. God says to skin him like a goat. He told me so. And then I could find some idiot minions to follow me. To give me money. Then they come after you. And when you object, we say "you're a racist for not allowing us to follow our religion". Ha. For good measure I'll even recruit people with nice deep tans. Would you still piss and moan about "the south" and Nascar? Probably.
Imagine if 2/3 American homosexuals voted Republican. Is that even possible to ponder? Well, that's how it is in Holland. Because of the muslims. |
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