|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
 Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:10 am Post subject: John Pilger: The Last Empire |
 |
|
Watch award-winning war correspondent, journalist, and documentary filmmaker John Pilger here talk about
Empire and Obama: Power, Illusion and America's Last Taboo.
| Quote: |
| The real tragedy is that Obama, the brand, appears to have crippled or absorbed much of the anti-war movement, the peace movement. Out of 256 Democrats in Congress, just 30 are willing stand up against Obama's and Nancy Pelosi's war party," adding, "On June 16th, they voted for $106 billion for more war. The 'out-of-Iraq caucus' is out of action. |
| Quote: |
| Here is the 45th President of United States, having stacked his government with war mongers, corporate fraudsters, and polluters from the Bush and Clinton eras, promising not only more of the same, but a whole new war in Pakistan," said Pilger, arguing that America's wars have been "justified by the enduring myth of 'exceptional America,' a myth the late Harold Pinter described as 'a brilliant, witty, highly successful, act of hypnosis.' |
| Quote: |
| Race, gender and class can be very seductive. It is the class one serves that matters. |
Or as Malcolm X said:
| Quote: |
| It is not about a black face in a high place. |
| Quote: |
Whilst President Obama is doing one thing, Brand Obama gets you to believe something else.
The real tragedy is that Obama, the brand, appears to have crippled or absorbed much of the anti-war movement, the peace movement. Out of 256 Democrats in Congress, just 30 are willing stand up against Obama's and Nancy Pelosi's war party. On June 16th, they voted for $106 billion for more war. The 'out-of-Iraq caucus' is out of action. |
| Quote: |
| My own guess is that a populism is growing once again in America, evoking a powerful force beneath which has a proud history. What Obama and the bankers and the generals and the IMF and the CIA and CNN and BBC fear, is ordinary people coming together and acting together. It's a fear as old as democracy. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
This "empire" notion strikes me as lucicrous; America has never been an empire. Empires died after the two world wars and we have lived in a post-empire age since then.
Rather, writers now use "empire" as a propaganda-rhetorical device to, they hope, shame America, the same R. Reagan once called Soviet Russia "an evil empire." And this particular writer's rhetoric, and I am not familiar with him at all, strikes me as completely unoriginal, unenlightening, and ultimately unhelpful.
Last edited by Gopher on Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
That guy is really obnoxious. He calls America "the land of slavery". What? Brazil too, John? Saudi? I hate that style of bombastic moralistic propagandizing.
And this dude loves Hugo. Not to play to player, but that's screwy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Authors like this, Mises, have no idea that slavery existed in Brazil or elsewhere in the world. They only know that America is evil... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Pilger apparently said:
| Quote: |
| My own guess is that a populism is growing once again in America, evoking a powerful force beneath....... |
Hmm. That sounds familiar. Where have we heard something similar before? Ah yes....."A specter is haunting Europe - the specter of communism"
Well, it sounded familiar until.......
| Quote: |
| ........which has a proud history |
So that's communism out, I'm afraid - unless the massacre of 100m unarmed civilians in the name of anti-capitalist utopianism is Pilger's definition of 'proud'. Freudian slip, eh? 
| Quote: |
| What Obama and the bankers and the generals and the IMF and the CIA and CNN and BBC fear, is ordinary people coming together and acting together. It's a fear as old as democracy. |
Oh Jesus, listen to him go on with himself.
Also, why "the last" empire, by the way? Is you and your Guardian comrades' communist-Islamist utopia of the future not going to be an empire? Just a happy kingdom, eh? Whatever, I'm sure the Last Empire is the last step to eternal salvation and ultimate bliss.
The problem with the Pilgers of this world is that it's simply intolerable for them that a man who runs a trouser button business might earn more than a well-versed-in-Dickens civil servant or office pen-pusher. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
You're right Gopher.
To what extent is this the fault of America's open society and cultural position? America is extremely critical of herself, and movies, books, tv shows are shown around the world about her sins. The Soviet Union was as active around the world, and every bit as nefarious (if not more) yet Russia today isn't an open society and anyways doesn't have the cultural position to broadcast any internal debate to non-citizens around the world. The result? We know that America was meddling here and there (Chile, for example) but unless we're really excited on the topic we don't know the extent to which the Soviet Union was meddling. Only one side is spread. Why do Michael Moore's movies about the American health system show in Seoul or Singapore? What use is that?
NPR had an Oxford style debate about this about a year back:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6625002 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pilger is a left wing fascist
and a Saddam Hussein apologist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
| We know that America was meddling here and there (Chile, for example) but unless we're really excited on the topic we don't know the extent to which the Soviet Union was meddling... |
Or the extent to which Brazil was meddling, either, Mises.
Disclaimer: Peter Kornbluh has written this up in his usual hyper-sensationalist way, using "memcon" and other mysterious bureaucratic jargon to make everyone believe he is an intelligence insider, etc. The story here is that some American documents show that R. Nixon and E. M�dici discussed coordination. Kornbluh assumes and alleges but in fact does not know that Washington snapped its fingers and controlled all Latin American govts and armed forces. We really need to see Latin American armed forces' documents, however. And we have not; we only see the American side in case after case. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yeah, I don't know anything about it. But it was fresh in my mind. On Sunday (or Sat?) I watched an episode of No Reservations where the host Tony went to Chile. I've seen dozens of episodes, but this ep was the only one where he starts off with a historical lesson of the evils of what America did there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I was hoping the discussion would focus more on the points I highlighted, namely how Obama has co-opted the left and anti-war factions, and how he (in collaboration with others) is using himself to sell the same failed, disastrous domestic, economic, and foreign policies of his predecessors, or even worse.
Gopher: Why do you say "post-empire" when the US still has bases in over 100 countries and multiple wars on the other side of the planet? Please do not make a merely semantic argument.
Mises: The fact is that the US was once a land of slavery. Where is the controversy in pointing that out?
Last edited by bacasper on Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bacasper wrote: |
Mises: The fact is that the US was once the land of slavery. Where is the controversy in pointing that out? |
You know how he used it. Not as a point of historical reference but as a hammer with which to bang down the country. Slavery ended a long time ago. America is also the land of the first amendment, and as far as I know, is the most free country on earth in terms of free speech. If you're going to say America is the land of anything as a point of unique reference, it is the land of free speech. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Mises: The fact is that the US was once the land of slavery. Where is the controversy in pointing that out? |
You know how he used it. Not as a point of historical reference but as a hammer with which to bang down the country. Slavery ended a long time ago. America is also the land of the first amendment, and as far as I know, is the most free country on earth in terms of free speech. If you're going to say America is the land of anything as a point of unique reference, it is the land of free speech. |
I agree 100%. It is just that I don't like when people counter criticism of America with, "But other countries are worse!" Even if it is, and I agree that it often is, that does not mean that America cannot be better. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bacasper wrote: |
Mises: The fact is that the US was once the land of slavery. Where is the controversy in pointing that out? |
The use of a definite article is either innocently mistaken, but probably indicative of a raving Bolshevik. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bacasper wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Mises: The fact is that the US was once the land of slavery. Where is the controversy in pointing that out? |
You know how he used it. Not as a point of historical reference but as a hammer with which to bang down the country. Slavery ended a long time ago. America is also the land of the first amendment, and as far as I know, is the most free country on earth in terms of free speech. If you're going to say America is the land of anything as a point of unique reference, it is the land of free speech. |
I agree 100%. It is just that I don't like when people counter criticism of America with, "But other countries are worse!" Even if it is, and I agree that it often is, that does not mean that America cannot be better. |
Sergio above hit it right. But any country can be better, of course. America has problems but "the land of slavery" it is not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There, I fixed it.
I will just add that I have often pointed out that it was their own slavemasters in Africa who sold them into slavery in the first place.
Picky, picky.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
