|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
 Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: Did Bush yell fire in a crowded theater? |
 |
|
That's what Tom Ridge seems to be alleging...
| Quote: |
WASHINGTON � Tom Ridge, the first secretary of homeland security, asserts in a new book that he was pressured by top advisers to President George W. Bush to raise the national threat level just before the 2004 election in what he suspected was an effort to influence the vote.
After Osama bin Laden released a threatening videotape four days before the election, Attorney General John Ashcroft and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld pushed Mr. Ridge to elevate the public threat posture but he refused, according to the book. Mr. Ridge calls it a �dramatic and inconceivable� event that �proved most troublesome� and reinforced his decision to resign.
|
Juan Cole weighs in...
| Quote: |
In fact, I argued in summer, 2004, that when Ridge did raise the terrorism alert, it had the unfortunate effect of outing an al-Qaeda double agent who had been turned by the Pakistani government and was helping set a trap for al-Qaeda in the UK. In turn, that caused the British government to have to move against the people it had under surveillance prematurely, harming the case.
Ridge is alleging he was pressured on the eve of the election. But I still wonder about the circumstances of the summer announcement. He might have been being used then, too, and not known it.
|
As the NYT article says, Ridge does not provide any direct evidence that the terror-alerts were political, besides his own suspicions. But I wonder how the Bush defenders will be able to rebut his claims, since they're basically gonna have to argue that a former secretary of homeland security, appointed by Bush himself, is either lying or delusional.
link
link |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm trying to think of a comment for this thread that isn't cynical, smug and unhelpful.
Somebody wanna help me out? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
I'm trying to think of a comment for this thread that isn't cynical, smug and unhelpful.
Somebody wanna help me out? |
In which direction would your cynicism be aimed? Towards Bush, Ridge, the NYT, or...? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Actually, the first thought that came to mind was from Fight Club:
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Re: Did Bush yell fire in a crowded theater?
| Quote: |
| Kiran Chetry: In his book Ridge says, �Ashcroft strongly urged an increase in the threat level, and was supported by Rumsfeld. There was absolutely no support for that position within our department. None. I wondered, �Is this about security or politics?�� Fran, you were in the meetings. What is your recollection of how that whole conversation went down...? |
CNN Reports |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Did Bush yell fire in a crowded theater? |
|
|
| On the other hand wrote: |
That's what Tom Ridge seems to be alleging...
| Quote: |
WASHINGTON � Tom Ridge, the first secretary of homeland security, asserts in a new book that he was pressured by top advisers to President George W. Bush to raise the national threat level just before the 2004 election in what he suspected was an effort to influence the vote.
After Osama bin Laden released a threatening videotape four days before the election, Attorney General John Ashcroft and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld pushed Mr. Ridge to elevate the public threat posture but he refused, according to the book. Mr. Ridge calls it a �dramatic and inconceivable� event that �proved most troublesome� and reinforced his decision to resign.
|
Juan Cole weighs in...
| Quote: |
In fact, I argued in summer, 2004, that when Ridge did raise the terrorism alert, it had the unfortunate effect of outing an al-Qaeda double agent who had been turned by the Pakistani government and was helping set a trap for al-Qaeda in the UK. In turn, that caused the British government to have to move against the people it had under surveillance prematurely, harming the case.
Ridge is alleging he was pressured on the eve of the election. But I still wonder about the circumstances of the summer announcement. He might have been being used then, too, and not known it.
|
As the NYT article says, Ridge does not provide any direct evidence that the terror-alerts were political, besides his own suspicions. But I wonder how the Bush defenders will be able to rebut his claims, since they're basically gonna have to argue that a former secretary of homeland security, appointed by Bush himself, is either lying or delusional.
link
link |
I am sure there was in fact a single shred of evidence, not much more than that. Bush usually did not outright lie as much as outright exaggerate, mislead and rationalize. In fact Bush hardly ever lied during his term , he exaggerated, mislead and rationalized quite a lot, but hardly ever outright lied.
In spite of that I still think he was an ok president.
Bush actually acted like Bill Clinton when Clinton sent cruise missiles to blow up a factory in the Sudan based on flawed evidence.
Clinton was an ok president too , despite this.
Bush is guilty , but he is not the first. He thought the long term interests of the US were best served with him in office instead of Kerry. (He might have been (sort of right) there.
Presidents misuse power - what else is new?
Obama is going to do it eventually as well, just wait and see.
Nothing here means that the nature of the enemies of the US is different than what Bush said it is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
