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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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talking about the total numbers.
Anyway as for the present Vietnam has changed its world outlook , much more than the US has.
That is why the 2 nations get along.
You know that Vietnam has now offered the US military bases. They decided that the US isn't so bad. Not after having a war with China.
Nothing ever justifies anything bad unless it stops something worse, but the Communists were planning to go after the US.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:37 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Did you read the article? |
Yeah. If you don't want to read it, here's the Reader's Digest version:
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In all the tales of wartime courage peppering John McCain's presidential campaign trail, perhaps the most outstanding example of selfless heroism involves not the candidate but a humble Vietnamese peasant.
On October 26, 1967, Mai Van On ran from the safety of a bomb shelter at the height of an air raid and swam out into the lake where Lieutenant Commander McCain was drowning, tangled in his parachute cord after ejecting when his Skyhawk bomber was hit by a missile.
In an extraordinary act of compassion at a time when Vietnamese citizens were being killed by US aerial bombardments, he pulled a barely conscious McCain to the lake surface and, with the help of a neighbour, dragged him towards the shore. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| RJjr wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
Did you read the article? |
Yeah. If you don't want to read it, here's the Reader's Digest version:
| Quote: |
In all the tales of wartime courage peppering John McCain's presidential campaign trail, perhaps the most outstanding example of selfless heroism involves not the candidate but a humble Vietnamese peasant.
On October 26, 1967, Mai Van On ran from the safety of a bomb shelter at the height of an air raid and swam out into the lake where Lieutenant Commander McCain was drowning, tangled in his parachute cord after ejecting when his Skyhawk bomber was hit by a missile.
In an extraordinary act of compassion at a time when Vietnamese citizens were being killed by US aerial bombardments, he pulled a barely conscious McCain to the lake surface and, with the help of a neighbour, dragged him towards the shore. |
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Right. He tried to keep away the others who were stabbing and kicking JM. Doesn't fit with your story of a "compassionate" people. Perhaps a compassionate individual. But your emotive editorializing took over. |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
talking about the total numbers.
Anyway as for the present Vietnam has changed its world outlook , much more than the US has.
That is why the 2 nations get along.
You know that Vietnam has now offered the US military bases.
Nothing ever justifies anything but the Communists were planning to go after the US. |
This was in the article:
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| The total tonnage of bombs dropped on Vietnam was eight million more then was used in all of World War II. |
It's generally accepted that the tonnage of bombs were in the millions and vastly exceded the amount in WWII, kind of like the 6,000,000 figure about the Holocaust. We know it likely wasn't exactly 6,000,000 - maybe it was 6,259,123 or perhaps 5,923,781, but all we can do is roll with the generally accepted number. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| RJ do you have a little seafaring operation based out of Somalia? |
So do you? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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This is the problem with locking people up as punishment rather than locking them up to protect society. It makes releasing someone who is no longer a threat much more difficult than it needs to be.
No one is going to commit more acts of terrorism because they're suddenly thinking, "Even if I get caught it will be no problem, I just need to become terminally ill and they'll let me out of jail." Keeping this man locked away benefits society not at all. In fact, it actually comes with a cost to society.
People serving time who are no longer a true danger to society only makes sense if their incarceration serves as a deterrent for potential future offenders. I don't think that's a particular concern in this case, so I have no problem with his release. That said, I do think this should be a codified part of the system rather than an impromptu act by politicians. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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The US wasn't out to kill all Asians or all Vietnamese so it is not like the figure of the holocaust or even the killing fields besides the North Vietnamese were willing to kill a million to conquer S Vietnam. And at the time they weren't just thinking of South Vietnam being the endgame.
Anyway there is the fallacy of the non distributed middle , which says that just cause something has one thing in common does not make two things similar or even slightly similar.
The reason the US wasn't nuked was that the Soviets never figured how to take out US nuclear submarines. |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| RJjr wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
Did you read the article? |
Yeah. If you don't want to read it, here's the Reader's Digest version:
| Quote: |
In all the tales of wartime courage peppering John McCain's presidential campaign trail, perhaps the most outstanding example of selfless heroism involves not the candidate but a humble Vietnamese peasant.
On October 26, 1967, Mai Van On ran from the safety of a bomb shelter at the height of an air raid and swam out into the lake where Lieutenant Commander McCain was drowning, tangled in his parachute cord after ejecting when his Skyhawk bomber was hit by a missile.
In an extraordinary act of compassion at a time when Vietnamese citizens were being killed by US aerial bombardments, he pulled a barely conscious McCain to the lake surface and, with the help of a neighbour, dragged him towards the shore. |
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Right. He tried to keep away the others who were stabbing and kicking JM. Doesn't fit with your story of a "compassionate" people. Perhaps a compassionate individual. But your emotive editorializing took over. |
Did you see the guys in the lake helping McCain? It wasn't just one guy, even though Mai was the one that apparently took the most initiative. That the guys were able to stave off the attack of the people trying to kill McCain suggests that more people wanted to save him than to kill him. If it was little Mai Van On by himself versus an angry lynch mob, do you think Mai, by himself, could've stopped them? Look at the muscular guy in the tank top holding McCain's hand while Mai and his homeboys are saving him. To save him, hold his hand, and defend him from angry attackers -- all on the same day? Such compassion. I don't see how those Vietnamese dudes turned the other cheek like that and saved him. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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North Vietnam in Victory.
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Vietnamese boat people
Events resulting from the Vietnam War led many people in Cambodia, Laos, and especially Vietnam to become refugees in the late 1970s and 1980s, after the fall of Saigon. In Vietnam, the new communist government sent many people who supported the old government in the South to "re-education camps", and others to "new economic zones." An estimated 1 million people were imprisoned without formal charges or trials.[1] According to published academic studies in the United States and Europe, 165,000 people died in the Socialist Republic of Vietnam's re-education camps.[1] Thousands were abused or tortured.[1] These factors, coupled with poverty, caused hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese to flee the country. In 1979, Vietnam was at war (Sino-Vietnamese War) with the People's Republic of China (PRC). Many ethnic Chinese living in Vietnam, who felt that the government's policies directly targeted them, also became "boat people." On the open seas, the boat people had to confront forces of nature, and elude pirates.
In Cambodia, the Khmer Rouge regime murdered millions of people in the "Killing Fields" massacres. Many people attempted to escape. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boat_people
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:57 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Such compassion. I don't see how those Vietnamese dudes turned the other cheek like that and saved him. |
It sill doesn't at all square with your emotive comment. But anyways, I suppose next you'll argue that there has never been a similar example of "such compassion" from AmeriKKa. Eh.
Anyways, yes. You've had your fun. This thread isn't about Vietnam. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| In Vietnam, the new communist government sent many people who supported the old government in the South to "re-education camps", and others to "new economic zones." An estimated 1 million people were imprisoned without formal charges or trials.[1] According to published academic studies in the United States and Europe, 165,000 people died in the Socialist Republic of Vietnam's re-education camps.[1] Thousands were abused or tortured.[1] These factors, coupled with poverty, caused hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese to flee the country. |
Yes. RJjr apparently glosses over this. Ever met a boat person RJjr? Or someone who was in one of those camps? I'm guessing the answer is no.
Anyway, back to the OP. It is rather disgusting how the Libyan government "paraded" him when he landed. And I'm totally ignorant about the case, so no idea if he is a fall guy or truly responsible for the incident. |
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Stones1962
Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Location: Europe/Asia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| UK needs oil. US needs oil. UK and US need Libya. Libya needs UK and US technology to get the oil. Libya needs the cash. The cat goes free. Simple. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: |
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This just keeps getting better, as Stones1962's cynicism has already anticipated.
The British govt should get out of the "compassionate" business to save itself more unmitigated humiliations in the future...
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Britain on Saturday rejected any suggestion that it had struck a deal with Libya to free the Lockerbie bomber -- after questions arose when Moammar Gadhafi embraced the man convicted of killing 270 people and publicly thanked British officials.
Gadhafi praised Prime Minister Gordon Brown and members of the royal family by name for what he described as influencing the decision to allow the terminally ill Abdel Baset al-Megrahi to return home to die. Thousands greeted al-Megrahi at the airport as he arrived in Tripoli after being freed Thursday from a Scottish prison.
But British officials insisted they did not tell Scottish justice officials what to do -- and in any case, they could not, because the decision was not theirs' to make.
"The idea that the British government and the Libyan government would sit down and somehow barter over the freedom or the life of this Libyan prisoner and make it form part of some business deal .... it's not only wrong, it's completely implausible and actually quite offensive," Business Secretary Peter Mandelson told reporters in London... |
NPR Reports |
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