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| Total Votes : 46 |
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Triban
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: Suwon Station
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 Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
You're completely clueless. Hey, ya-ta. Buy this Obama Rally. If your boy fixed the economy, buy into it. Today. Let me know how he's doing in November.
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Yataboy is clueless. |
fixed. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
He has continued all or almost all of the policies of the Bush administration, trillions have been handed over to the Wall Streeters with no strings attached, and has brought everyone into his cabinet from the finance sector, he is comtinuing the wars, doubling the number of troops in Afghanistan while July has been American forces, he been the deadliest month yet for American forces, he backs attacks on Iran and Pakistan, has proposed "prolonged detention," he has spearheaded wage cuts for American workers as prices have spiralled, his administration has invoked �state secrets� to block court cases challenging torture and domestic spying,... (It's getting late.)
There should be a half-star option. |
bscasper's way of reassuring some posters here. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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If I am ticking off
| Joo who wrote: |
| One good thing is that he will eventually cause a fight between the stupid liberals and the creepy Ron Paul followers |
I must be doing something right 
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asmith
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Obama is a disgrace. He's in the back pocket of the Wall Street crowd. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
If I am ticking off
| Joo who wrote: |
| One good thing is that he will eventually cause a fight between the stupid liberals and the creepy Ron Paul followers |
I must be doing something right
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You discounted the possibility that I liked your posts on this thread- sort of. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
If I am ticking off
| Joo who wrote: |
| One good thing is that he will eventually cause a fight between the stupid liberals and the creepy Ron Paul followers |
I must be doing something right
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I dare you to say "if you like Bush Obama is your man. " |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Found something from Machiavelli that predicts problems for B. Obama re: his base among the American left.
"I do not want to fail to remind any ruler who has recently gained power...that he should be well aware of the reasons why those who helped him to gain power acted as they did. If it was not out of any natural affection for him, but only because they were discontented with the previous government...he will not be able to satisfy them." |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
If I am ticking off
| Joo who wrote: |
| One good thing is that he will eventually cause a fight between the stupid liberals and the creepy Ron Paul followers |
I must be doing something right
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You discounted the possibility that I liked your posts on this thread- sort of. |
Of course I discount such a slim possibility. If it were true, you'd have to explain in detail (WITHOUT cutting and pasting 10 pages, please).
But I will say
| Quote: |
| If you liked Bush, you'll love Obama. |
Gopher: So I see there is nothing new under the sun. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Found something from Machiavelli that predicts problems for B. Obama re: his base among the American left.
"I do not want to fail to remind any ruler who has recently gained power...that he should be well aware of the reasons why those who helped him to gain power acted as they did. If it was not out of any natural affection for him, but only because they were discontented with the previous government...he will not be able to satisfy them." |
Big reason why we need more than 2 major political parties. Right now, in order to vote one party out effectively, you really need to vote the other one in, even if you have no affection for the other party so to speak.
Certainly, you could vote Libertarian, or Green, or so forth, but as things stand it has the real-world effect of making the party you're against more likely to be re-elected. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
Found something from Machiavelli that predicts problems for B. Obama re: his base among the American left.
"I do not want to fail to remind any ruler who has recently gained power...that he should be well aware of the reasons why those who helped him to gain power acted as they did. If it was not out of any natural affection for him, but only because they were discontented with the previous government...he will not be able to satisfy them." |
Big reason why we need more than 2 major political parties. Right now, in order to vote one party out effectively, you really need to vote the other one in, even if you have no affection for the other party so to speak.
Certainly, you could vote Libertarian, or Green, or so forth, but as things stand it has the real-world effect of making the party you're against more likely to be re-elected. |
Of course you are right, but it's more than that. The notion that we have two distinct parties to choose from is an illusion. You are right that most people think they have to vote Democrat just to stop a Republican from getting in, and vice versa, when in fact they are all on the same team, and use this phony left/right wing paradigm to dupe the public. It is a complete and utter lie that the two parties are competing against each other. In fact, it is literally an oligarchy at this point.
People like Nader are not part of the club working for Wallstreet and are excluded from the debate in the media. Within the two parties, only those candidates most likely to serve Wallstreet (all of whom are compulsory members of the major David Rockefeller think tanks like the CFR) are given a ticket to ride. The most obvious recent example would be Obamania, which was a media-induced frenzy, which would never, ever have occurred if the establishment hadn't picked him behind the scenes (in return for all he's doing for them now).
In reality, the system is totally broken, and no longer a real democracy. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| In reality, the system is totally broken, and no longer a real democracy. |
Unless you're saying the results of each election are determined in advance, and no matter what the voting totals ended up being the announced result would be the same, I don't agree with this. The fact that people allow themselves to be sucked into a two party system by only voting for the names they're barraged with instead of researching it themselves and finding their ideal candidate might be regrettable, but it's not undemocratic.
Now, if you're saying 80% of the public could have voted for McCain, and they'd still have announced Obama winner -- for example -- that's different. That would be undemocratic. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Re: "a real democracy."
Based on much that I have seen here, I suspect that many who post on this messageboard would define "a real democracy" as a completely decentralized, non-hierarchichal regime which submitted most if not all government decisions to a plebiscite.
In other words, a completely useless state of affairs -- if not outrageously dangerous and susceptible to passionate dictators-of-the-moment. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| In reality, the system is totally broken, and no longer a real democracy. |
Unless you're saying the results of each election are determined in advance, and no matter what the voting totals ended up being the announced result would be the same, I don't agree with this. The fact that people allow themselves to be sucked into a two party system by only voting for the names they're barraged with instead of researching it themselves and finding their ideal candidate might be regrettable, but it's not undemocratic.
Now, if you're saying 80% of the public could have voted for McCain, and they'd still have announced Obama winner -- for example -- that's different. That would be undemocratic. |
You got the first part right. You are right that it is literally possible for the public to stop being stupid and vote in an independent candidate; however, the entire process is geared towards this never happening. The two parties dominate the system, excluding all other voices from the debate and work with the media to constantly hammer home the false left-wing/right-wing paradigm.
Regardless of who you vote for in either party, they are working for Wallstreet, not for you. They don't give a *beep* about you. They don't. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Re: "a real democracy."
Based on much that I have seen here, I suspect that many who post on this messageboard would define "a real democracy" as a completely decentralized, non-hierarchichal regime which submitted most if not all government decisions to a plebiscite.
In other words, a completely useless state of affairs -- if not outrageously dangerous and susceptible to passionate dictators-of-the-moment. |
Talk about a non sequitur... you probably think of yourself as a "right-leaning" conservative type, but all you're advocating is socialism. A centralized, hierarchical regime that does whatever the hell it wants is more on par with living under Joe Stalin than following the US Constitution.
Most laws passed by the government are taxes or restictions on freedom. Less government is the way to go. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Most laws passed by the government are taxes or restictions on freedom. Less government is the way to go. |
Depends on the freedoms being restricted. There are a lot of things I simply don't want people to be free to do, especially if they come with consequences for me.
What exactly do you want the freedom to do that you lack right now? |
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