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"feminist hawks" and the internet

 
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:03 am    Post subject: "feminist hawks" and the internet Reply with quote

Interesting analysis. I'm not sure what to make of the writer's argument that the internet was a neccessary part of the development of the "feminist hawk" ideology. Confluences in the wider, off-line culture probably had more to do with it.

Quote:
How do big ideas spread on the Internet, and how are they changed in the process?

Consider the feminist-hawk position � the one that advocates the use of force to liberate Muslim women from persecution and burkas. This position has become an integral part of the ideological Web. Feminist-hawk arguments may even be considered an artifact of the Web, just the way the revolutionary arguments of 18th-century America can be seen as an artifact of pamphlets


the NYT
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Pluto



Joined: 19 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if the writer is making an argument or just providing us his prospective. I'm sure the feminist hawkideology would have existed without the Internet. I think the writer may be suggesting that the Internet was a type of accelerant that spread the ideology of the feminist hawk faster than it would have otherwise been.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At times, he seems to suggest that the ideology required the internet to exist, or at least to survive. Though he does frame his argument in questions, so maybe he's trying to leave his opinion deliberately vague.

Quote:
As a fan of intensely specific forms of communication � blogs, memoirs, reality TV � I don�t believe that any idea exists apart from its mode of dissemination. But I also know that ideas that seem especially big and irresistible are usually so elegantly integrated with particular communication technologies that it�s hard to conceive of them separately. Could Rush Limbaugh�s patriotic anti-elitism have coalesced anywhere but on AM radio? Could �family values� have emerged without Christian TV?

And could the feminist-hawk position have emerged without the weird confluences of the Web? Like any wily and surviving creature, this new ideology has faced evolutionary pressures and adapted to its ecological niche.

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Pluto



Joined: 19 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, then it is a hypothetical question. Where would the feminist hawk ideology be without the Internet? The answer to this question is then, obviously, I don�t know. However, if I were to speculate, I�m sure the feminist hawk ideology would have been hatched somewhere in the conservative sphere, refined in one of the think tanks (PNAC or Heritage) then distributed through other media such as TV, radio, print, bullhorns or whatever. The feminist hawk ideology would have spread, just not as fast would be my best guess.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marshall McLuhan wrote:
The medium is the message.
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Moldy Rutabaga



Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting question. I do not think these movements and their technologies can be separated so cleanly. There were likely such feminist liberation ideas presented as feminist conference papers long before the internet became prominent, and the technology allowed the ideas to spread faster (I don't know why we would call it a right-wing ideology; such conservatives are not usually so interested in women's rights). Similarly, in another age Limbaugh would have written inflammatory pamphlets and made crazy speeches in public. The Christian fundamentalists have been around since colonial America and TV has also allowed them to have a special platform. I am not so sure either that the feminist hawk movement is a large part of the web, as I had never heard of it until today. So my dithering answer, I guess, is that I don't think the web creates such followings by itself, although it may create some, like LOL cats or Rickrolling or other shared ideas which are only possible because of browsers.

Ken:>
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am not so sure either that the feminist hawk movement is a large part of the web, as I had never heard of it until today.


You can do a google on "Christopher Hitchens women Afghanistan" to get the basic gist of it. It is not so much an ideology, but rather a set of justifications that were employed by defenders of the wars in Afghanistan and, to a lesser extent, Iraq.
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