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Lockerbie bomber released
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RJjr wrote:


It's okay Gopher. I'm too scared to fight the mujahideen too. I'm with you on that. Maybe we can form a support group.



Coming from another vet that never "ran" from a battlefield. Your comment is over the line.

You sir have lost this debate. Go home.
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Marc Ravalomanana



Joined: 15 May 2007

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RJjr wrote:
Don't run off the battlefield when the mujahideen start looking tougher than expected. All of my tax dollars the government transfered from me to you and all I get in return is a job undone. Go back and at least try to win. Have I served? No, and I'm not going to. Those wars are meaningless to me, other than being a black hole for my tax dollars. The mujahideen watched you flee, but they will never find out what the back of my shirt looks like. Laughing


RJjr wrote:
It's okay Gopher. I'm too scared to fight the mujahideen too. I'm with you on that. Maybe we can form a support group.


Disgraceful.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marc Ravalomanana wrote:
RJjr wrote:
Don't run off the battlefield when the mujahideen start looking tougher than expected. All of my tax dollars the government transfered from me to you and all I get in return is a job undone. Go back and at least try to win. Have I served? No, and I'm not going to. Those wars are meaningless to me, other than being a black hole for my tax dollars. The mujahideen watched you flee, but they will never find out what the back of my shirt looks like. Laughing


RJjr wrote:
It's okay Gopher. I'm too scared to fight the mujahideen too. I'm with you on that. Maybe we can form a support group.


Disgraceful.

Yes, I agree that cowardice is disgraceful, unless it is actually the instinct of self-preservation.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Medical advice on Libyan bomber 'in doubt'

JUSTICE secretary Kenny MacAskill was last night under pressure to reveal more details of the medical evidence that led to the release of the Lockerbie bomber, after it emerged that only one doctor was willing to say Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi had less than three months to live.
Labour and Conservative politicians have demanded the Scottish Government publish details of the doctor's expertise and qualifications, amid suggestions he or she may not have been a prostate cancer expert.

The parties have also raised questions over whether the doctor was employed by the Libyan government or Megrahi's legal team, which could have influenced the judgment.

The evidence provided by the doctor is crucial as compassionate release under Scots law requires that a prisoner has less than three months to live.

Doubts about Megrahi's life expectancy have already been raised by American relatives of the 270 victims of the bomb that blew up Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie on 21 December, 1988. But last night the Scottish Government said it would not publish details of the individual who gave the crucial advice.

Mr MacAskill has said he based his decision to release Megrahi on the opinions of a range of experts.

But this is contradicted by a decisive report sent to Mr MacAskill on 10 August.

While it noted that four prostate cancer specialists � two oncologists and two urologists � were consulted, the summary said: "Whether or not prognosis is more or less than three months, no specialist would be willing to say."

The report suggests that only one doctor was willing to support the claim that Megrahi had just weeks to live.

The medical report stated that the "less than three months to live" prognosis was: "In the opinion of Megrahi's (the name or title of the individual was then blanked out] � who has dealt with him prior to, during and following the diagnosis."

There was also a suggestion that Megrahi might not be as ill as had been claimed. The report said: "Clinicians who have assessed Mr Megrahi have commented on his relative lack of symptoms when considering the severity and stage of underlying disease."

And suggestions that the doctor who gave the prognosis may have been employed by the Libyan government emerged in the report's notes. It said that a professor from Libya had been involved in Megrahi's care and the medical officer who wrote the report had been "working with clinicians from Libya over the past ten months".

The report also said Megrahi met the conditions for early release, but fell short of making a specific recommendation.

Opposition parties claimed this left important question marks over the quality of the medical advice. They now want clarification on the doctor's expertise and qualifications, and whether he or she was employed by the NHS, the Libyans or Megrahi's legal team.

Last night a spokesman for the Conservatives said that the Scottish Government must now identify the doctor.

He said: "This is no ordinary case of patient confidentiality. This is the background to a very important decision so the normal rules do not apply here.

"At the very least, we must know the qualifications of this doctor, whose opinion was clearly crucial, the only one to say that Megrahi had a life expectancy of less than three months.

"It appears from the report that he was not a specialist. We also need to know if he works for the NHS or was employed by the Libyans or Megrahi."

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Medical-advice--on-Libyan.5587119.jp
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RJjr



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Good. See? You can calm down from your homopbobic, antimilitary, and antiAmerican hysteria and start talking again -- but for your first line, of course, which still intentionally misrepresents and offends. But c'est la vie. Do keep trying to make yourself look cool and nonchalant, even, in absolute mastery of all exchanges. Someday, someone might just buy it... Laughing

In the meantime, please show me which evidence you evaluated before you seized upon this still baseless, Marxist-Leninist allegation that "they did it for the oil."


You call me a Marxist-Leninist when I've never received a government check. I'll never work for the government. I choose instead to be a producer of tangible items in the free market economy, like how Americans used to be back in the 1950s. I feel that being a producer again is the only way America will rebound.

I support gays in the military, the military itself, and America. But it's my right to voice my opinion on what I feel is best for our nation. I know it's taboo to say, but I strongly feel the enemy is extremely committed to staying on the battlefield as long as it takes (watch a few martyrdom vids), and that the war will continue to drag on indefinitely and continue to push the American economy ever closer to the edge of the cliff. The jobs in the private sector continue to shrink as the public sector continues to grow. Just as parasites live off the host but eventually destroy it, the bloated number of government employees is crushing the private sector. It is unsustainable. If we continue to attempt to fund all of these government initiatives and pay all of these government employees at the expense of the taxpayers in the wealth-producing part of the economy, the American economy and the dollar will collapse a lot harder than the politicians and media are letting on. You say that I'm anti-American and anti-military, but ask yourself what shape America will be in and and who will pay our soldiers and pay for our planes when the private sector is decimated. Our Chinese creditors won't be there for us forever, you know.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. AntiAmerican on the usual U.S.-centric head-trip. Because you cannot simply discuss the Lybian affair without citing the usual bill of particulars and then going on and on about this rabid nonsense, including all that has appeared here re: American hypocrisy, Vietnam, and the IRA.

Everything in world affairs, every single thing, seems to excite your extreme unhappiness with the Great Satan.

So again, I think it must really suck to be like some of you people here, like you live your lives as if you were everyday inside one of these screaming townhall meetings on healthcare.

And I pity you and sympathize, RJjr. For professors and the academic community as well as the press and media have cultivated this in you and many like you, this extremely harsh and negative way of talking about America, for decades now.

Wake up and start questioning these discourses that are out there. They are mostly reacting, still reacting, against the patriotic consensus in the 1950s, like the antiOrientalists in Near-Eastern studies continue to react against Max Weber et al., and other eighteenth- and nineteenth-century Orientalists. But how long must this continue before we can say, "OK. We get it. Let us move on to other discourses now?"
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher: Is RJjr homophobic just because he didn't want a hug from you?
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6140801/Jack-Straw-admits-Lockerbie-bombers-release-was-linked-to-oil.html

There you have it.

Forget about global cooling/global warming/climate change. A move away from oil is necessary for a wide spectrum of excellent reasons. The UK is paving the way for the EU's wonderful future of sucking up to horrible government to satisfy energy needs.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This human rights lawyer asserts his innocence.

The Framing of al-Megrahi

Gareth Peirce

It is, of course, now all about oil. Only a simpleton could believe that Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi was not recently returned to his home in Libya because it suited Britain. The political furore is very obviously contrived, since both the British and American governments know how and for what reasons he came to be prosecuted. More important than the present passing storm is whether any aspect of the investigation that led to al-Megrahi�s original conviction was also about oil, or dictated by other factors that should have no place in a prosecution process.

The devastation over Lockerbie, at the cost of 270 lives, deserved an investigation of utter integrity. The European Convention on Human Rights demands no less. Where there has been a death any inquiry must be independent, effective and subject to public scrutiny. But, in the absence of this, a number of the bereaved Lockerbie families have of necessity themselves become investigators to make sense of what was being presented at al-Megrahi�s trial and decide whether the prosecution was in fact a three-card trick put together for political ends.

Perhaps the result could have been different if there had been an entirely Scottish police investigation, without interference or manipulation from outside. Instead, from the beginning, the investigation was hijacked. Within hours, the countryside around Lockerbie was occupied: local people realised to their astonishment that the terrain was dotted with unidentified Americans not under the command of the local police.

Extraordinarily, however, distinct from the Dumfries and Galloway police, scores of men, some wearing no insignia, some the insignia of the FBI and Pan, invaded the area. Lockerbie residents reported seeing unmarked helicopters hovering overhead, carrying men with rifles whose telescopic sights were pointing directly at them. And when, much later, items of baggage came to be married up with the passengers they had accompanied, there were disturbing signs of interference. The suitcase belonging to Major McKee (a CIA operative flying back to the US to report on his concern that the couriering of drugs was being officially condoned as a way to entrap users and dealers in the US) was found to have had a hole cut in its side after the explosion, while the clothes in the suitcase were shown on subsequent analysis to bear no trace of explosives. A second suitcase, opened by a Scottish farmer, contained packets of white powder which a local police officer told him was undoubtedly heroin; no heroin was ever recorded as having been discovered.


full, detailed article at link
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Reggie



Joined: 21 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
Gopher: Is RJjr homophobic just because he didn't want a hug from you?


Laughing

The bigger laugh is that he calls people who are happy to sink or swim in the free market "Marxist-Leninists." His whole career is merely a socialist function of the excess wealth created by those of us who are successful in free market economy where things like "tenure" or "government pensions" are things we have to pay for people like Gopher, but never receive ourselves.
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Reggie



Joined: 21 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was an interesting article, bacasper. Thanks for sharing it.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
UK regrets Megrahi's release

Britain's coalition government regards the release of the Libyan man convicted of the Lockerbie plane bombing as "a mistake", the UK's ambassador to the US has said.

Nigel Sheinwald said late on Thursday that his government "deeply regrets" the anguish that Abdel Basset al-Megrahi's release last year caused the families of those killed in the 1988 airline bombing.

"The new British government is clear that Megrahi's release was a mistake," Sheinwald said in a statement.

"[It] deeply regrets the continuing anguish that his release on compassionate grounds has caused the families of Megrahi's victims in the UK as well as in the US," he added.

Al-Megrahi - the only man convicted of the 1988 airline bombing that killed 270 people - was released from a Scottish prison last August on compassionate grounds after doctors said he was near death.

But nearly one year on, the alleged former Libyan intelligence agent remains alive, reviving outrage on both sides of the Atlantic over his release.

BP allegations

Sheinwald's comments came as Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, said she would look into claims by a group of senators that oil company BP had lobbied the British government to release al-Megrahi to protect commercial interests in Libya.

BP signed an exploration agreement with Libya in May 2007, the same month Britain and Libya signed a memorandum of understanding that led to al-Megrahi's release.


The oil company has denied the allegations, admitting that it did lobby the government over a Libyan prisoner transfer agreement but did not enter discussions on al-Megrahi.

Sheinwald, in an open letter to John Kerry, a US senator, published on Friday, also defended BP from the claims.

Earlier this week, four Democratic senators called for an inquiry, after reports that a cancer expert who backed the three-month prognosis now believed Megrahi could live for 10 or 20 years.

But professor Karol Sikora said on Thursday that his words were taken out of context, and that the chances of Megrahi surviving for a decade were "less than one per cent".

"There was a greater than 50 per cent chance in my opinion that he would die within the first three months then gradually as you go along the chances get less and less," the Press Association quoted him as saying.

"So the chances of living 10 years is less than one per cent, something like that."

Scottish decision

A spokesman for the Scottish government said on Friday that it had no contact from BP in relation to al-Megrahi.

"The issues being raised in the United States at present regarding BP refer to the prisoner transfer agreement (PTA) negotiated by the governments of the UK and Libya, and therefore have nothing to do with the decision on compassionate release which is a totally different process.

"We were always totally opposed to the prisoner transfer agreement negotiated between the UK and Libyan governments.

"The memorandum that led to the PTA was agreed without our knowledge and against our wishes.

"The Justice Secretary rejected the application from Libya under the PTA specifically on the basis that the US government and families of victims in the US had been led to believe that such a prisoner transfer would not be possible for anyone convicted of the Lockerbie atrocity.

"[Al-Megrahi] was sent home to die according to the due process of Scots Law, based on the medical report of the Scottish Prison Service Director of Health and Care, and the recommendations of the Parole Board and Prison Governor - all of which have been published by the Scottish Government."

http://english.aljazeera.net//news/europe/2010/07/201071612515449681.html

He should not have been set free.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
He should not have been set free.

Why not? He was innocent. Just to make some victims' families feel better? What about the victims' families who knew he'd been framed?
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swoodman



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Location: Reading, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah compassion for someone they were never certain was guilty. I thought the US was supposed to be the most Christian country in the world. He wont be alive for long, its only right he was finally released
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swoodman wrote:
Yeah compassion for someone they were never certain was guilty. I thought the US was supposed to be the most Christian country in the world. He wont be alive for long, its only right he was finally released



If the man was guilty, he should not have been released. It's very corrupt that someone who supposedly was dying isn't really dying. It seems ridiculous. It seems like BP wanted him released. This is the same company that is so hated by Americans now.
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