Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Jeweltone]

This is a bit of a rant, but I am hoping someone (perhaps in the Korean entertainment industry, or with contacts there) can enlighten me.

Since coming back to the USA, I have watched a few K-Dramas and movies with "official subtitles" (MBA America DVDs or US releases of films) and I have noticed that the subtitles, although grammatically correct, are truly appalling as far as conveying meaning.

Here are some areas that especially drive me crazy:

a) Dramas are edited with a 1950s book of slang. Koreans curse and tell it like it is, even in family shows. A lot.

Examples:
--You Rascal! You Jerk! You Bad Boy! (actual word used ended in a definite "seki")
--Dang! (Makes no sense in "My Name is Kim Samsoon," as Samsoon is said to have a foul temper and a potty mouth by more than one character)
--Were you born in a barn? (My mother says that!)

b) Uses unnecessary Anglicizations of honorifics and titles.

This drove me nuts in OLDBOY, as the girl the main character sleeps with always addresses her lover as "ahjussi," not his first name, as it is translated in the subtitles. When the dark secret of the movie is revealed, the original "ahjussi" adds extra creepiness to the plot.

Why not use "sir," or"Mister," which are closer to the actual meaning of the word?

"Oppa" also gets translated as the person's first name typically, as well as "Sunbae," "Boss," "Teacher," etc.

A contextual small asterisk (like most fansubs use) would not go amiss if the word is a bit of a challenge.

c) Changing idioms and cultural ideas to suit a Western audience.
Assuming the person watching the drama isn't a complete idiot (and most people who bother with "foreign" entertainment are not) why not directly translate the idiom? Some of them lend more charm to the story.

"The tallest nail gets pounded" doesn't exactly translate well to "the squeaky wheel gets oiled."

I genuinely prefer fansubs, even though they are not the most grammatically accurate, because they are much closer to the cultural context of the dramas and don't lose the original meaning.

So can anyone enlighten me as to why these things are done?
Is it a "facesaving" technique?
Is it that all of the translators are older (and therefore more "delicate" about rough language)?
Is it because Koreans genuinely think westerners are stupid?

[cdninkorea]

It happens in reverse too- sometimes the Korean subtitles in American movies have men speaking 반말 (casual speech) to women but women speaking the "요" form (can't remember what it's called in Korean) to men. Women's groups have even complained about it.

[galoshes]

Excellent! Glad to have found a fellow K-drama/movie fan. This topic touches upon something that is near and dear to my sentimental heart; and although I'm hardly an expert on subtitling, I am pretty good with the Korean language, and I'll make no secret of the fact that I've often fantasized about being the one doing the translating.

I understand perfectly well where you're coming from regarding terms like 'oppah' and 'ajeosshi'. I agree 'mister' is a pretty good substitute for the latter in most contexts, but I'm less sure about using such terms untranslated. Please don't misunderstand -- I'd LIKE to see that happen myself. But let's be realistic; most westerns would not understand such terms, and (for example) using 'brother' for 'oppah' would be plain confusing, since girlfriends commonly call their boyfriends that(!), and so using the persons's name is the compromise. I know YouTube and other fansites are full of comments from knowledgeable and enthusiastic foreign fans who drop terms like "Saranghaeyo oppah" and "Dara unni ippeudah" like natives, but they are hardly representative of the bulk of the moviegoing public in the west.

One might object that repeated exposure would automatically educate the foreign audience, but I don't know -- experience tells me not to credit the ordinary, casual viewer with that much patience. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but a co-worker of mine (who knows little about Korea or Korean movies in general) not too long ago made the unwise decision to make that piece of crap 'D-War' his introduction to Korean cinema. Now he is turned off Korean movies in general and is not at all interested in viewing any more Korean movies, despite my discreet attempts to steer him toward '괴물' (not the dubbed version!), the antidote to 'D-War'.

Perhaps a glossary could be provided in the bonus material sections of the DVDs? My DVD of 'Linda Linda Linda'(Japanese, but starring Bae Dunah) has something like this to explain the history of the title song.

As for the salty language, you know one has to be discreet about using profanity in the U.S. Even DVDs have to be careful, since they are not rated and children might be watching.

My impression is that the Korean translators try a bit too hard to accommodate everyone, and thus end up catering to the lowest common denominator. This is why they often replace(unnecessarily) perfectly intelligible, and interesting, idioms with existing English analogues. The unfortunate side effect is that some of the fun is excised along with the original wording.

I don't think Koreans genuinely think westerners are stupid. On the other hand, in view of the numerous posts I've read here over the years that implied or explicitly stated Koreans are stupid/irrational, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the converse were true, also.

[madoka]

If you're that interested, go to the forums here:

http://www.koreanfilm.org/

Darcy, the owner of the site, does translations for the Korean entertainment industry. IIRC, he has shared his insights into the process.

[samd]

Yeah this annoys me too.

I especially agree on the idioms - who isn't able to figure out a direct translation?

There seem to be way to many inaccuracies for people who are obviously high level speakers of both languages.

Some bad ones I can remember off the top of my head:

- In the movie Awake, Brooklyn is translated as "the slums".

- In Public Enemies Johnny Depp says he doesn't dance and the female character asks him "Why don't you dance?"(or something similar) and it is translated as "가르쳐 줄까요?". Why not just do a direct translation? Is there something wrong with her asking him that? Even if it would sound strange to Koreans, surely a more direct translation would be understood by Koreans who are well aware they are watching an American movie.

[cj1976]

Sometimes the use of honorific titles detracts from the storyline. For example, on CSI, two of the male cops are good buddies and they look out for each other. This closeness is not really obvious when they call each other "ajossi" or "boss".

[Chambertin]

"Official" subtitles are generally terrible. They are usually made by the same groups that produce the wondrous Textbooks, Advertisement campaigns, and manuals. Occasionally I think the groups watched Monty Python too much and want to recreate the bad translation guide scene.

Those people get paid to churn out product to an audience who doesn�t care generally. How many Anime fanboys, or Dramasluts really care about the quality of the subtitles? How many domestic consumers really give a flyin F what the T-shirt or product logo really says?
As long as the commercials say to put it on my body I will. (that goes in any culture)
My guess is the language learning was the last reason the general consumer joined the club.

There is your answer. My suggestion, try the fansub sights. The best thing about it is that there are a number of them and you get to compare the different translations. Some are good, some are bad, some make you rethink your conception of the language. I remember a few times I gained a deeper understanding as I saw multiple translations for the same word / situation.

[Mr. Pink]

I am pretty serious into K-dramas...I think I have about 60-70 DVD sets and really, if you can understand some Korean, the translation on those things you stated doesn't really matter. I actually find it part of the fun in watching the dramas.

The best subtitles I have found come from YA Entertainment releases.

The worst come from Korean releases where they add English subtitles for the possibility of future international release.

[Jeweltone]

Hmmm...I wouldn't exactly call myself a Dramaslut (that distinction goes to my Mexican-American friend, who hates telenovelas but loves all K-dramas), but I do like to dip into the foreign film industry (Europe, Asia, and sometimes India) and television shows. Many K-dramas are quite silly, but there are a few gems.

As a viewer of foreign films (and with a smattering of Romance languages under my belt), I just find official K subtitling project quite lacking.

The only good official subbing I have seen is for the Korean film Wang Wi Namja (aka The King and the Clown). The subber clearly had a blast translating the dialogue, especially during the tumbling and drama scenes, into pseudo-Renaissance English. It kept much of the original flavor of the Korean dialogue.

I think K-subbers need to strive more for keeping the flavor so that dialogue jokes aren't completely missed.

A case in point: Dattebayo, a fansub group who does anime translations from Japanese, do an excellent job of keeping the flavor.

In the world of "Bleach," for example (yes, I am addicted to "Bleach" thanks to my little brother), one of the villains (Gin, aka "fox face") speaks like a harmless country bumpkin, and the subber writes the titles in an appropriate "country bumpkin" dialect (a la Beverly Hillbillies). If the subber had written it in straight proper English, the creepiness of the character would not have come through well.

[Confused Canadian]

You might find this thread interesting...

Dumbing Down in Korean Subtitles

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=42283&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=subtitles&start=15

[Jeweltone]

Many of the fansub subbers are college students, and they get seriously flamed by whiny fanbots if they do not get out a subtitle by one day after the show has aired.Yet they do find time to edit and correct most of their mistakes.

I think that it would suck to be a professional subber in Korea, howver, if the above post is the case!

[samd]

[Slowmotion]

"you bad boy" cracks me up. Recently I watched that drama Full House and there were a bunch of typos in the subtitles, like geez, type this in microsoft word with spell check on and you would catch those mistakes. Things like
"Wht are you do ingt omorrow"

[Chambertin]

[samd]