Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Jane]

I had a good conversation with a colleague last week regarding friendships with Koreans. She�s still newer to the country, and so our opinions differed a bit regarding the sincerity of a friendship between a Korean and a non-Korean. I�ve thought a lot about it and I think I have reached a conclusion: any relationship with a Korean is conditional. Fair weather friendships. Shallow relationships.

Now, I do have Korean friends, but it has taken years to trust them and get to the level that our friendship is unconditional. Otherwise, it seems that my relationships with Koreans are based on how I can be used. For example, the big one of course is, being used for English particularly by mothers who have children. The second �use� is for prestige, that is, a Korean with a non-Korean in toe can only gain to revel in the attention proffered by others. Third, is for money: how can I make money off of or from this person? In other words, for highly conditional reasons.

Friendship, compassion and love are all emotions that are unsustainable or impossible to develop when conditional reasons exist. Is that why I find it difficult to develop good friendships with Koreans? And I do have room for comparison. Being married to a Korean and now a Korean family, I�m accepted because I�m part of the family, which has nothing to do with my skin colour, country of origin or any other condition. They take me for what I am (good and bad), and I have seldom felt this way about other Koreans during my time in Korea, minus a few Koreans that I can count on one hand. The same thing goes for my friends who are Korean but grew up elsewhere; they understand the idea of unconditionality. If I look at it from the other direction, I don't think I would agree that I have used Koreans as it goes against my personal value system, and I find using people disgraceful. Is it possible that Koreans can manage to use people because they abide by a 'collective' value system, and therefore don't need to be accountable to themselves?

How have a come to this conclusion? By being dismayed and dismayed over and over again. Particularly in the early years, I would try to foster friendships with Koreans, only to learn sometime later that they didn�t really want to be my friend, they just wanted to improve their English or the English of their kids, and not even have the desire to try to even hide it. You may think I�m jaded and I would probably agree with you, if by jaded you mean more wise as to the intentions of people I meet everyday, wise as to the thoughts running through people�s heads as they look me up and down and try to gauge of what use I can be. This has resulted in the partial loss of my dignity, and in the loss of belief that all people are generally good.

Do you have examples of sincere friendships with Koreans? If so, I�d love to hear them. As I�m leaving Korea soon, I would love to leave with a sense of respect for the locals and a new found belief that Koreans are honourable people.

[chungp2]

no matter what country or culture you are coming from, making new and meaningful friendships with adults are few and far between...by the time they are adults, they have their own agendas and problems to worry about, the least of which is making a new friend. You tried harder because you came from a different country...they have lived here their whole life...they have their set of friends here...hell, at least they talked to you...

[benji1422]

[samcheokguy]

HUH? The above is bizarre....like a mix of evolutionary pop psy. and a touch of lad culture, all drowned in internet tough guy syrup.

[DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP]

I agree 100% with the op. I no longer bother trying to make Korean friends and if am approached I make small talk and then try to get rid of them.

I think it's worse for women actually. I have a close female friend of 10+ years and she's always thought she was great frinds with a Korean only to find out they talk utter trash about her behind her back or they have been using her for the reasons the op mentioned.

That said, in the 6 years I've lived here I know one guy from the UK who has a really good, decent Korean friend whom I've met and admire.

I also know one Korean guy who I f'ing love. He is about 50 years old and is the head of the English dept of a high school. He was my friend's handler. He is not racist or xenaphobic at all and whilst somewhat chauvensitic in his attitudes towards women (from any race) when we go out with him he is genune and we always have a great time.

So there has been some wheat amongst the chaff.

Hey if a Korean had the same experience in England he could say - at least there is some wheat amongst the CHAVV!!!

[Julius]

There are three major inhibitors to friendships in Korea that I've noticed...

a) Xenophobia. Koreans know that they will be frowned upon by being in public with a foreigner. Some will be jealous, some will make comments to them, some will give them nasty looks, drunks will even shout out stuff to them.
So if a Korean wants to remain in the good graces of their community they have to justify the friendship somehow as "free english" or "Its part of my job to hang out with this foreigner".

b) affiliation. Friendships usually involve people of the same age or workplace.
You can strike up a good friendship with a co-worker but the moment you move on to a new workplace, it is over. because you have a new affiliation. This is dissapointing.

c) Rank: Korean friends will want to either put you on a pedestal , or view you as something lower. There is a hierarchy to the friendship, and they will act in certain structured ways accordingly.

[Fox]

Well, I've only been in Korea for 1 year, but in that time, I've met some people who certainly seem to have an affection for me that's totally unrelated to how I can be used. In fact, to be honest, most of the Koreans I associate with seem much more interested in what they can do for me than what I can do for them.

A few individuals in particular -- mostly women, but lest you perhaps misinterpret, older married women -- have made especial efforts to see to my comfort. When we dine out, my tastes are a primary concern. If I'm feeling in a bad mood or awkward they're interested in how they can help fix it. Although when I make Korean etiquette "mistakes" they point it out to me, they really do try to understand and accommodate my culture, and are willing to put up with behavior that could be perceived as rude.

Most Koreans in my life are ultimately just like any other sort of people; after we part ways, I doubt we'd even think about one another again. But I feel I've made some bonds that are at least on a par with the bonds one could make with Westerners in a similar situation, and given the language barrier that exists I find that remarkable.

[Elvis Gratton]

Both Jane and Benji make very very good points.

[mmstyle]

Interesting post, Jane. I've discussed this topic with my husband a few times, in reference to one Korean co-worker I have. I pretty much agree with your experiences when it comes to making friends. The only real difference is that, even though I have recognized the tit-for-tat relationship that usually exists here (for foreigners, anyway) I still have a couple of those kinds of relationships with people here. I don't really think of them as true friendships, but we are in a situation where we can help one another, and occasionally have a pleasant lunch to boot. That being said, one of these people actually keeps in touch with the teacher I replaced, and even helps that teacher's family in Korea now (even though he has gone home).

I have one co-worker who seems particularly interested in forming a friendship with my husband and I on western terms. He is critical of the flaws he sees in his own culture (which is a first for me among the Koreans I have gotten to know so far), and seems to want to know more about both of us in a way that is more than just politely keeping up appearances. We do help each other out, but it feels less like the Korean idea of "I helped you, now you must help me" and more about doing it because you like the other person. I don't mind that he wants to improve his English, because he is interesting to talk to, and he gives me insight when I make some sort of faux pas at the office, or helps me avoid them in the first place. But, I never really met some one like that for the first 2 years I was here.

I absolutely agree that it is more difficult for women to make friends here, for a variety of reasons, both gender based and cultural.

[asmith]

The only friendship I ever had in Korea was with DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP.

But I no longer associate with him now that he's a jailbird.

Plus, one night he got real drunk and urinated on my shoes.

[komerican]

There's a stigma against making western friends here in Korea but there's also a similar stigma in the West.

You can have one or two Asian friends in the West but any more than that people will think you're weird.

[tiger fancini]

[Fox]

[redaxe]

[Forward Observer]

OP makes some valid points, however I have met ONE Korean that defies all of the norms. He's married to sistersarah from this board. He's a stand up guy in every way. He lived in the west for more than 5 years, I have no trouble communicating with him, feel I can tell him anything, and he's got a very good personality. I'd say he's one of the best people I've met in the past ten years. That counts in both Korea and America. I find that a lot of what Jane complains about is also true back home, although not for the same exact reasons. As people get older, it's much harder to make the kinds of friends that we had when we were in school. People try to see what they can get out of you, so the more powerful and influential and popular you are, the more people want to be near you. It's just human nature.