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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Cheonmunka wrote: |
Further, if someone kills your wife and children, would you not bother him? Would you let him enjoy three meals a day, sunshine and exercise?
I don't believe civil liberties exist for others who kill innocent people. I wouldn't give a hoot if he were waterboarded until dead. |
Others who have suffered the loss of a loved one through murder feel differently.
Eddie E. Hicks, Sr., of Atlantic County, New Jersey lost his daughter to murder.
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Long before I knew very much about the death penalty I was opposed to it. I just felt that it was wrong for the government to be in the business of killing people. To me killing was wrong regardless if it was by an individual or the state. I was appalled that the taxes I paid could be used to kill someone, thereby making me an unwilling participant in the death of another human being. Often people who knew I was against the death penalty would tell me I wouldn�t be against it if I lost a loved one to murder. I would respond to them by saying I could not say how I would feel in that situation. But I did not believe it was a situation I would ever be faced with.
On May 29, 2000 I received a telephone call that would forever change my life. I was informed by my youngest daughter that her older sister was just shot dead in High Point, North Carolina. My oldest daughter was murdered senselessly by a 19 year-old who was recently released from jail. My daughter was 26 at the time of her death and the mother of two young children. The pain of losing a child regardless of age has got to be the worst feeling possible. My family was never so devastated. Years later we continue to be affected by that tragic day.
People have asked me what my opinion of the death penalty is since my daughter�s murder. I tell them in the days following my daughter�s murder I was in so much pain and turmoil I was not sure how I felt. But after the initial shock wore off and I was able to think clearly again, I realized that the many reasons I was opposed to the death penalty had not changed. Since my daughter�s death I have learned much more about the death penalty and oppose it for even more reasons. When someone says that they support capital punishment for the families they are not speaking for my family. |
Kasia McRoberts, New Mexico lost her brother to murder.
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My brother Sammy was murdered, and along with his murder something inside of me died. It took me a few years to realize, through great suffering and despair, that I welcomed the death of that something inside of me: before Sammy was murdered, I believed in the death penalty. That belief was fostered by misinformation, and it grew through a disconnect from the one foundation we all are born with and are invited to see, breathe and live, and hopefully reside in: the ability to see the bigger picture. Sammy did not deserve to be murdered in his 30th year of life. I did not welcome the angst and despair I experienced. But rather than embracing the call for state-sanctioned murder, I chose instead to embrace my heart, which begged �no more violence no matter what.�
...I am, and will forever be, heartbroken that Sammy is not in my life. And at the same time, I am grateful that I no longer wish for the death of another being in retaliation to murder. |
Andre Smith, North Carolina lost his son to murder.
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Compassion for the man who killed my son
�One act of compassion can truly change the world in profound ways�
December 28, 2007 my son Daniel was stabbed to death at a popular nightclub in downtown Raleigh, NC. The police arrived at my house around 6:00 am and delivered the devastating news. Upon hearing that our son was dead, my wife collapsed to the floor, my daughter cried uncontrollably, and I felt as if my guts were ripped from my body. Instantly we were plunged into grief, our lives irrevocably changed.
That same day, when asked by an interviewer from a local news station as to how I felt about the young man who killed my son, without hesitation, and without forethought, I answered, �I feel nothing but compassion for him�. I explained that the young man is just as much a victim as my son was. The moment he plunged his knife into my son, killing him, I explained, he truly began to suffer. �How could I not have compassion for him?� I asked. �He has to live with what he has done for the rest of his life, and lifetimes to come�. |
Murder Victims� Families for Reconciliation |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| �How could I not have compassion for him?� I asked. �He has to live with what he has done for the rest of his life, and lifetimes to come�. |
This reveals that it's a mechanism to psychologically deal with the murder of a loved one, having faith in other entities and lifetimes ...
Stabbings at night within groups of boys does happen, the same as youth drivers and car crashes. Young people with booze and shit is going to happen.
But, pre-mediatated murderers (like those in your articles at top) must be kept permananetly out of society. You might not mind them wandering around on the street with you, you might like that, but it's not something that I want. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Cheonmunka wrote: |
| Further, if someone kills your wife and children, would you not bother him? Would you let him enjoy three meals a day, sunshine and exercise? |
Yeah, I would let him enjoy three meals a day, sunshine, and exercise. In fact, I'd let him enjoy even more than that: I have no objection to him having access to reasonable entertainment facility, and I have no objection to him remaining free from physical harm.
When someone commits a crime against society, it is unfortunately the fact that they often must be incarcerated for the safety of everyone involved. That doesn't mean I want the criminal to suffer, though; how does that benefit me? How does that benefit anyone? It's not as if it will undo the crime.
Our criminal justice system should be about minimization of harm.
| Cheonmunka wrote: |
| I don't believe civil liberties exist for others who kill innocent people. I wouldn't give a hoot if he were waterboarded until dead. |
Why? They're still human, even if they labor under either impulses they have a hard time controlling or a terrible sense of judgment. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Cheonmunka wrote: |
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| �How could I not have compassion for him?� I asked. �He has to live with what he has done for the rest of his life, and lifetimes to come�. |
This reveals that it's a mechanism to psychologically deal with the murder of a loved one, having faith in other entities and lifetimes ... |
So you are suggesting that people be deprived of their mechanisms for coping with the murder of a loved one???
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| But, pre-mediatated murderers (like those in your articles at top) must be kept permananetly out of society. You might not mind them wandering around on the street with you, you might like that, but it's not something that I want. |
How exactly does, "I oppose the death penalty" translate into "I want murderers walking around on the street with me"? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
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| But, pre-mediatated murderers (like those in your articles at top) must be kept permananetly out of society. You might not mind them wandering around on the street with you, you might like that, but it's not something that I want. |
How exactly does, "I oppose the death penalty" translate into "I want murderers walking around on the street with me"? |
It's kind of like how when Conservatives hear Liberals suggest seizing alleged terrorists and holding them indefinitely without charge or trial is wrong, they hear, "I want to let terrorists run free in America." |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| How exactly does, "I oppose the death penalty" translate into "I want murderers walking around on the street with me"? |
In NZ life is about eight years in jail. Eight years for wiping out someone else's life completely. Parole is another word that means back in society again. US has longer terms but NZ doesn't. It's quite shocking how soon murderers are back unsupervised in the community.
Some may make a 'terrible judgements' and end up perpetrating the worst possible crime by their hands. But that's life. We all make judgement calls.
Also, think about the cost to house these recidivist murderers. 40k per year is a decent salary for a decent person. Decent people should get that. Stone walls with bread and water is fine.
Anyway, this topic is about torture. I have to believe that the operatives and authorities pick up the right people. Obviously the guy Mohammed was a master of terror.
I believe too that the authorities have saved the US public and airplane travellers several times the past few years.
Anyway, I'd like to end the discussion from my point of view. Of course I am not sealed - I used to be anti the death penalty. Now I have kids, work hard and do the best I can with limited means, I just feel indifferent about the humane plight of criminal mongrels who seem to purposely, or 'uncontrollably,' as you put it, intent on destroying others.
Peace and out from me. I understand your thoughts. Some I feel the same way about. But, in other ways I don't.
Anyway, it's not a life changing law review or anything - just a forum of ideas. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Cheonmunka wrote: |
| Further, if someone kills your wife and children, would you not bother him? Would you let him enjoy three meals a day, sunshine and exercise? |
Yeah, I would let him enjoy three meals a day, sunshine, and exercise. In fact, I'd let him enjoy even more than that: I have no objection to him having access to reasonable entertainment facility, and I have no objection to him remaining free from physical harm.
When someone commits a crime against society, it is unfortunately the fact that they often must be incarcerated for the safety of everyone involved. That doesn't mean I want the criminal to suffer, though; how does that benefit me? How does that benefit anyone? It's not as if it will undo the crime.
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It benefits the rest of the citizens. If it were known that the standard procedure for caught and convicted terrorists was life in a isolation cell with nothing but the bare essentials needed to sustain life...there'd be a good many terrorists thinking twice about making future attacks. A greater level of deterence benefits us all. If you are going to stick somebody in jail...but otherwise give him a better life than what he had back home...that's not going to do anything else, other than hand a recruiting tool to terrorist organizations. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| If you are going to stick somebody in jail...but otherwise give him a better life than what he had back home... |
  Now that you mention it, that would explain all the hordes of people trying to break into prison.  |
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