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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: a grammar question - who is right? |
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Here is the sentence is question:
In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which
help make them distinguish from other containers aboard an airplane.
Two native speakers said that the above sentence is correct as is.
I say that it should be the following:
In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which helps distinguish them from other containers aboard an airplane.
Who is correct? Or .... are all of us wrong? 
We have agreed to let the grammar Gods at Dave's ESL cafe have the final rule. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I vote for helps. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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When I saw the first bold part, I thought "which distinguishes them from".
Even though "help" is ok, I don't personally see the use in it. If something only "helps" to distinguish, then there is a chance it won't be. I would want something more definite when it comes to black boxes. |
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cruisemonkey
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: a grammar question - who is right? |
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| raewon wrote: |
Here is the sentence is question:
In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which
help make them distinguish from other containers aboard an airplane.
Two native speakers said that the above sentence is correct as is.
I say that it should be the following:
In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which helps distinguish them from other containers aboard an airplane.
Who is correct? Or .... are all of us wrong?
We have agreed to let the grammar Gods at Dave's ESL cafe have the final rule. |
Are you serious? An inanimate object cannot distinguish shite from shineola.
God to cognizant being - "You MUST distinguish... or I will have a psycho sacrifice my son." |
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martypants
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ulsan, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: a grammar question - who is right? |
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| raewon wrote: |
In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which
help make them distinguish from other containers aboard an airplane.
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Definitely wrong!
| raewon wrote: |
In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which helps distinguish them from other containers aboard an airplane.
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Definitely correct, although there are other ways to write this more succinctly. |
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Pompeyinnit
Joined: 01 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps they meant to say "...which (1)helps (to) make them (2)distinguishable from other..."
1) the subject and verb need to agree - helps
2) the part of speech needs to be an adjective - distinguishable
did two native speakers really say that the original sentence was correct?!?!? |
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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies. I agree with martypants that there are much better ways to word that sentence. I'm in favor of going with
Pompeyinnit's wording - so thanks for your contribution. |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:28 am Post subject: Re: a grammar question - who is right? |
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| raewon wrote: |
Two native speakers said that the above sentence is correct as is.
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Let me guess. They're also English teachers.
Christ almighty. |
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ChinaChao1
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: FL/China/Korea wherever!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:45 am Post subject: Re: a grammar question - who is right? |
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That is one major misplaced modifier.
The black boxes on airplanes are colored bright orange so that they can be distinguished from other containers (aboard the airplane).
| raewon wrote: |
Here is the sentence is question:
In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which
help make them distinguish from other containers aboard an airplane.
Two native speakers said that the above sentence is correct as is.
I say that it should be the following:
In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which helps distinguish them from other containers aboard an airplane.
Who is correct? Or .... are all of us wrong?
We have agreed to let the grammar Gods at Dave's ESL cafe have the final rule. |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:56 am Post subject: Re: a grammar question - who is right? |
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| raewon wrote: |
Here is the sentence is question:
In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which
help make them distinguish from other containers aboard an airplane.
Two native speakers said that the above sentence is correct as is.
I say that it should be the following:
In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which helps distinguish them from other containers aboard an airplane.
Who is correct? Or .... are all of us wrong?
We have agreed to let the grammar Gods at Dave's ESL cafe have the final rule. |
That sentence sounds horrible
In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which
help to distinguish them from other containers aboard an airplane.
In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which
help in distinguishing them from other containers aboard an airplane.
I really want to say helps but but a plural subject..
aside from that I would use assist instead of help |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Blackjack could use a remedial English course too.
I was however mildly interested to learn from this thread that the "black box" I often read about in news stories is actually orange. |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
Blackjack could use a remedial English course too.
I was however mildly interested to learn from this thread that the "black box" I often read about in news stories is actually orange. |
Why?
I was trying to work with the existing sentence. The sentence itself is just badly structured. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: |
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>In fact, the black boxes in airplanes are colored bright orange, which
help[s] make them distinguish[ed] from other containers aboard an airplane.
Did those two native speakers read or hear you say that sentence? My guess is that they were hearing helps and distinguished. The sentence would then make better sense, but your revision is clearer and less awkward.
Ken:> |
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typo
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| like the dude said, major misplaced modifier. train wreck of a sentence. |
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