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Some schools don't want Obama meddling in the the classroom.
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

Quote:

President Obama wants to give a speech to students about taking responsibility.

The Just Say No campaign, which had clubs in schools across the US, was founded by Nancy Reagan. Even if it wasn't always Mrs. R visiting the schools to give the speeches, the program was closely enough associated with her in the public mind to make that distinction rather obsolete.

And anyway, I'm pretty sure Nancy Reagan DID visit the schools on occassion. At least, she was portrayed as doing such on an episode of Diff'rent Strokes(in which she told the class a story about a teenaged boy who smoked pot and "hurt his little sister very badly").

First ladies' traditionally accepted stomping grounds, On the other hand. Different than direct, televised presidential broadcasts with accompanying lesson plans and homework assignments.

bucheon bum

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

On the other hand wrote:

Quote:

I don't ever remember any concerns over the autonomy of States or Localities then.

Nor when Reagan brought in the nationwide 21 drinking age. Though I guess states were still technically free to set their own age, if they wanted to forego federal highway funding.

This one I go both ways on. Check out South Dakota v. Dole.

Quote:

The Supreme Court, in a 7-2 decision authored by Chief Justice William Rehnquist, ruled that Congress had engaged in a valid exercise of its power under the Taxing and Spending Clause, and did not violate the 21st Amendment. Rehnquist said that Congress's conditional spending is subject to four restrictions:

1. The condition must promote "the general welfare;"
2. The condition must be unambiguous;
3. The condition should relate "to the federal interest in particular national projects or programs;" and
4. Other constitutional provisions may provide an independent bar to the conditional grant of federal funds.

Now, studies have shown that raising the drinking age to 21 does decrease rates of drinking and driving. And this does fulfill condition #3, namely that if the Feds fund highways, they'd want to ensure that they're not used as bumper cars for sloshed teens.

But, then again, it seems like the Federal interest can always be found, just like its always been found under the Commerce Clause. So we shouldn't ever trust the Feds, ever, until they have solid and unambiguous studies in hand.

I do think they may have them in this case.

Yes, I do think it is constitutionally legit, I just think it is amusing that a party that claims to support a small central gov't and "states rights" passed this bill (although I think the Dems controlled Congress at the time too).

RufusW

Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject:

Well I just saw the speech and I thought it was good. Regardless of what may have been planned, the final result was good and a nice way to start the school year I'm sure.

Konglishman

Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

Quote:

President Obama wants to give a speech to students about taking responsibility.

And I suppose your point is that "Just say no" was also apolitical which I would agree with, of course. Anyways, for some reason, I thought that the "Just say no" slogan was MIchael Jordan's idea.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject:

Here's a text of the speech, just scroll down past the commentary.

Quote:

But at the end of the day, we can have the most dedicated teachers, the most supportive parents, and the best schools in the world - and none of it will matter unless all of you fulfill your responsibilities. Unless you show up to those schools; pay attention to those teachers; listen to your parents, grandparents and other adults; and put in the hard work it takes to succeed.

And that�s what I want to focus on today: the responsibility each of you has for your education. I want to start with the responsibility you have to yourself.

Pretty uncontroversial. The indoctrinator camp sure has egg on their face. Laughing

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:15 am Post subject: Obama's socialist agenda

Yup, Obama is indoctrinating the youth into his Socialist Agenda

Quote:

And that's what I want to focus on today: the responsibility each of you has for your education. I want to start with the responsibility you have to yourself.

And no matter what you want to do with your life - I guarantee that you'll need an education to do it.

We need every single one of you to develop your talents, skills and intellect so you can help solve our most difficult problems. If you don't do that - if you quit on school - you're not just quitting on yourself, you're quitting on your country.

But at the end of the day, the circumstances of your life - what you look like, where you come from, how much money you have, what you've got going on at home - that's no excuse for neglecting your homework or having a bad attitude. That's no excuse for talking back to your teacher, or cutting class, or dropping out of school. That's no excuse for not trying.

That's a swing and a home run for Obama. This is what he's excellent at, inspiring other people beyond what they think their limits on. Do you know how good a message this is for students, African-American and Hispanic, at inner city schools?

mithridates

Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:17 am Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

Here's a text of the speech, just scroll down past the commentary.

Quote:

Pretty uncontroversial. The indoctrinator camp sure has egg on their face. Laughing

Not to mention that the GOP gave him a full week to tailor the speech just so that it would happen this way. I'm baffled at the idiocy in opposing a speech that hadn't even been finalized yet.

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:25 am Post subject:

Quote:

Not to mention that the GOP gave him a full week to tailor the speech just so that it would happen this way.

Any evidence it was tailored? One of the talking heads asked that Florida Greer person the same thing. He didn't have an answer either.

The whole thing was a tempest in a tea-bag pot. Teachers that choose to show presidential speeches in classrooms receive the DoE pamphlets, skim through for any ideas to riff off of and toss 'em in the trash can. Mainly you just throw it open to the floor and let the kids react. By and large, the people who object to the supposed attempt at indoctrination are the people who indoctrinate at home and don't want that undermined.

I think if I'd still been in the classroom, I'd hold the kids who opted out till after the bell rang before dismissing them to the library to google up Ronnie Raygunz' presentation to school kids. They'd have a written report to do compared to the kids in class who only had to watch and respond in a class discussion. I'd make sure at least part of the class discussion would have been about why the speech was considered controversial.

Mark McKinnon has a nice piece on it:
"Do we need any more proof that partisanship has entered uncharted territory than the fact that an American president can�t give a simple inspirational speech to students about staying in school and working hard without having his motives, character, and politics questioned?"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-09-07/flunk-the-far-right/?cid=hp:beastoriginalsL2

A small note that no one has mentioned so far: GW Bush was actually in a classroom with real live American kids when word came about 9/11--and there was no known leftist outrage about a prez being in a classroom.

mithridates

Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:50 am Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Quote:

Not to mention that the GOP gave him a full week to tailor the speech just so that it would happen this way.

Any evidence it was tailored?

Speeches always get modified before they are released. What I was saying is that the GOP decided to broadcast everything they were ready to complain about ahead of time which made it easy to make sure that they came across looking like idiots when he finally gave it.

Quote:

The whole thing was a tempest in a tea-bag pot.

Of course it was. It also distracted the GOP for about a week as they talked about it and only now realized that it was a nontroversy. Obama has a bigger speech on health care tomorrow and the GOP hasn't spent as much time attacking it as they would have if they hadn't been talking a socialist agenda in schools.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:50 am Post subject:

Is Obama a one trick pony? His big "Game Changer", be it to keep kids in school or health care, is a speech?:

Quote:

Obama's speech a health care 'game changer'?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/09/obama.speech/

Maybe he should diversity his vocational skill set.

DIsbell

Joined: 15 Oct 2008

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:56 am Post subject:

rabble rabble rabble let's knock the guy for being able to give good, broadly appealing speeches rabble rabble rabble

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:03 am Post subject:

DIsbell wrote:

rabble rabble rabble let's knock the guy for being able to give good, broadly appealing speeches rabble rabble rabble

I'm sure the 40% of blacks and Hispanics who drop out of high school are going to change their life plans after a speech. And now the Dems are going to foresake their corporate masters for the same reason.

Obama is the feel-good king. You feel great watching him speak. And then you realize that in fact, that was all there was. Like after an NHL game ends in a tie (back when they could). The fans shuffle out after the final siren feeling moderately entertained by ultimately that nothing was accomplished.

caniff

Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:05 am Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

I'd make sure at least part of the class discussion would have been about why the speech was considered controversial.

I'm not sure that would go over well (with some parents and school administrators) given today's climate.

A small note that no one has mentioned so far: GW Bush was actually in a classroom with real live American kids when word came about 9/11--and there was no known leftist outrage about a prez being in a classroom.

Good point.

DIsbell

Joined: 15 Oct 2008

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:21 am Post subject:

mises wrote:

DIsbell wrote:

rabble rabble rabble let's knock the guy for being able to give good, broadly appealing speeches rabble rabble rabble

no one expects this speech to reduce highschool dropouts to zero, or even a noticeable amount. it's really intriguing how the whole "Obamessiah" angle is a fictitious creation of the right. but implying there's something wrong with a prominent figure trying to encourage kids to do well is an obvious sign of pettiness.

I fault George W. Bush for a lot of things, but encouraging students to work hard is not one of them. Same goes for Ronald Reagan.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:40 am Post subject:

Quote:

but implying there's something wrong with a prominent figure trying to encourage kids to do well is an obvious sign of pettiness.

No, it isn't. He could actually, you know, do something. Hey, all those black kids who drop out? Sure would be nice if daddy was around to smack them silly if they don't do their grade 1 homework and put them on a right path. But where is daddy? He's doing 10-15 for selling rock. If you want kids to stay in school, then maybe Obama should look at how the drug war - which is now his war - has removed the positive male role model from his "community". Aw, well that would be difficult and decrease his campaign donations. Best, give a speech and allow the talking heads to piss and moan about crazy Republicans. Done. Everybody feels good and America is back to shouting at each other.

This is the peak of the "feel good" era of modern center left thought. This is his economic policy. Talk up "green shoots" and change accounting rules to create fictional stability. He's a useless bag of hot air.

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