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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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 Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh come on Mises, he's trying to pass healthcare reform to help poorer people - those who may well get involved in drugs. Exactly how much do you want him to attempt in his first year? |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
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| but implying there's something wrong with a prominent figure trying to encourage kids to do well is an obvious sign of pettiness. |
No, it isn't. He could actually, you know, do something. Hey, all those black kids who drop out? Sure would be nice if daddy was around to smack them silly if they don't do their grade 1 homework and put them on a right path. But where is daddy? He's doing 10-15 for selling rock. If you want kids to stay in school, then maybe Obama should look at how the drug war - which is now his war - has removed the positive male role model from his "community". Aw, well that would be difficult and decrease his campaign donations. Best, give a speech and allow the talking heads to piss and moan about crazy Republicans. Done. Everybody feels good and America is back to shouting at each other.
This is the peak of the "feel good" era of modern center left thought. This is his economic policy. Talk up "green shoots" and change accounting rules to create fictional stability. He's a useless bag of hot air. |
so you're now implying that father of every drop-out is in jail on drug charges.
ok.
I agree that the war on drugs is a tragic farse, but what's even more interesting is how dropout rates correlate to poverty. but of course, leave it to a capitalist to ignore that. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
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| but implying there's something wrong with a prominent figure trying to encourage kids to do well is an obvious sign of pettiness. |
No, it isn't. He could actually, you know, do something. Hey, all those black kids who drop out? Sure would be nice if daddy was around to smack them silly if they don't do their grade 1 homework and put them on a right path. But where is daddy? He's doing 10-15 for selling rock. If you want kids to stay in school, then maybe Obama should look at how the drug war - which is now his war - has removed the positive male role model from his "community". Aw, well that would be difficult and decrease his campaign donations. Best, give a speech and allow the talking heads to piss and moan about crazy Republicans. Done. Everybody feels good and America is back to shouting at each other.
This is the peak of the "feel good" era of modern center left thought. This is his economic policy. Talk up "green shoots" and change accounting rules to create fictional stability. He's a useless bag of hot air. |
Ehhh, phooey!
The problem is basically a cultural one which the gov't can do precious little about. Obama, being black, can do more than most, but I doubt anyone is looking for major immediate gains on this problem. But it isn't just the black kids who heard the speech.
As a former gov't teacher, I would have loved to have a presidential speech at the beginning of any non-election year. It was no problem psyching the kids up in an election year (well, minimal problem) but in non-election years, it was sheer hell.
You also forget that not everyone is as cynical as you are. As a rough estimate, I'd say that around 25% of an average class was interested on day one...and if you could get them stirred up, the rest followed. (It helped that I could [and most definitely did] say that if they didn't play along I'd flunk their heiny and they wouldn't graduate. I think I taught that class 8 years and only had a couple of repeat offenders. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| DIsbell wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
| but implying there's something wrong with a prominent figure trying to encourage kids to do well is an obvious sign of pettiness. |
No, it isn't. He could actually, you know, do something. Hey, all those black kids who drop out? Sure would be nice if daddy was around to smack them silly if they don't do their grade 1 homework and put them on a right path. But where is daddy? He's doing 10-15 for selling rock. If you want kids to stay in school, then maybe Obama should look at how the drug war - which is now his war - has removed the positive male role model from his "community". Aw, well that would be difficult and decrease his campaign donations. Best, give a speech and allow the talking heads to piss and moan about crazy Republicans. Done. Everybody feels good and America is back to shouting at each other.
This is the peak of the "feel good" era of modern center left thought. This is his economic policy. Talk up "green shoots" and change accounting rules to create fictional stability. He's a useless bag of hot air. |
so you're now implying that father of every drop-out is in jail on drug charges.
ok.
I agree that the war on drugs is a tragic farse, but what's even more interesting is how dropout rates correlate to poverty. but of course, leave it to a capitalist to ignore that. |
"A capitalist".
The state has created the dysfunction in poor blacks in the United States. Obama is the big swinging dick in the state now. Please, socialist sociologist pig, hold your breath waiting for hope and change. Hold your breath waiting for the state to end poverty. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| The state has created the dysfunction in poor blacks in the United States. |
Errr... hmmmm... slavery, hey, caused by the state. methinks.... no.
'The state' could simply eliminate poverty, by taxing the rich to pay for a minimum standard of living for the poor.... that's that they do in Europe anyway... |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Slavery is a difficult topic. I suppose I'm supposed to pick a side and argue it to death but I'm quite interested in the history of it and it isn't so easy. One thing is clear, the state had to permit it. My bias is towards a state that protects individual rights, and the state that allows slavery sure doesn't do that.
In the United States the state does ensure a minimum standard of living. Food stamps, free medical care for the very poor, section 8 housing. But some fall through the cracks. Like in Europe:
http://modele-social.blogspot.com/
But again, if you look at Europe with rose tinted glasses, the whole world won't make any sense. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Do you think slavery has anything to do with the current situation of blacks in America, Mises? Yes, the state allowed it, it certainly wasn't the driving force. I think corporations may have had a role to play.
Some may fall through the cracks. However, the UK will treat anyone - regardless of origin - within their borders as well as a normal citizen. U.S. = not so much. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| The state has created the dysfunction in poor blacks in the United States. |
Errr... hmmmm... slavery, hey, caused by the state. methinks.... no. |
Of course the state (actually, states in the historical context) caused and enabled slavery. Of course, this should never have been allowed under the constitution, but individual states had their own governments which allowed it. When Lincoln abolished it, he did so by centralizing power and imposing it on the rebel states. In this case he was absolutely right to do so. In any instance, however, where the centralized state power goes against the constitution and takes freedoms away from individual states or people, then it is wrong.
| Quote: |
| 'The state' could simply eliminate poverty, by taxing the rich to pay for a minimum standard of living for the poor.... that's that they do in Europe anyway... |
You're missing the point. Equality of opportunity is essential in a just society, but we are not all equal in terms of merit/talent. But when you have big government, corruption leads to monopolies, financial cartels, and even the kind of corporatism we have today. Just cut out the government, and all the privilages enjoyed by the elite will vanish (individual merit and competition will determine who gets what, meaning we'll all get more, since resources are actually very abundant and technology just keeps improving).
Government should be limited to the powers given it under the constitution and should be our servant, not our master. |
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