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gakduki
Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Location: Passed out on line 2 going in circles
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 Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| The same topic is in the Current Affairs forum...read it there. MM is extremely biased, his unorthodox tactics of making people look worse than they are by suprise and careful selection are getting tiring. I wonder what solution he proposes, a workers utopia? Down with Capitalism, its better if we are all poor and only a few people are rich, than a society and a system that has put more people in middle class than ever before!!! |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Moore has done a great service by getting out the message of how the Bushes and bin Ladens were personal friends and business partners, and the undue effect Arabs have on American policy.
While therest of the country was grounded for three days after 9/11, Bush allowed only bin Laden family members to fly out of the US!
Moore is a true patriot. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| gakduki wrote: |
| The same topic is in the Current Affairs forum...read it there. MM is extremely biased, his unorthodox tactics of making people look worse than they are by suprise and careful selection are getting tiring. I wonder what solution he proposes, a workers utopia? Down with Capitalism, its better if we are all poor and only a few people are rich, than a society and a system that has put more people in middle class than ever before!!! |
I'm guessing you haven't seen the film.......neither have I........but....
.....I will come on here and eat a big slice of humble pie if this movie draws the conclusion that the whole system of capitalism should be abolished and replaced with socialism......
.......Moore is a liberal democrat. The same philosophy that the USA was founded on. He supports the principles of individual wealth and the pursuit of happiness. It's one thing to get rich in America. Done ethically, it's something Moore has no problem with.
It's a whole other thing to get rich in a way that plunges your country, and the rest of the world, into economic recession and possible depression. Then ask for trillions of dollars of government help!
Really. Some people here show a very poor understanding of the most basic political terms and ideas. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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eamo: WRONG! MM IS a socialist!
He loves Cuba & its model of a bourgeois-lifestyle ruling elite(hello Fidel) presiding over impoverished, terrorized masses.
He hates capitalism...as in "all animals are equal but some are MORE equal than others"....
Ethics!? MM has none...his films are full of lies & deceptions.... |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| gakduki wrote: |
| The same topic is in the Current Affairs forum...read it there. MM is extremely biased, his unorthodox tactics of making people look worse than they are by suprise and careful selection are getting tiring. I wonder what solution he proposes, a workers utopia? Down with Capitalism, its better if we are all poor and only a few people are rich, than a society and a system that has put more people in middle class than ever before!!! |
I'm guessing you haven't seen the film.......neither have I........but....
.....I will come on here and eat a big slice of humble pie if this movie draws the conclusion that the whole system of capitalism should be abolished and replaced with socialism......
.......Moore is a liberal democrat. The same philosophy that the USA was founded on. He supports the principles of individual wealth and the pursuit of happiness. It's one thing to get rich in America. Done ethically, it's something Moore has no problem with.
It's a whole other thing to get rich in a way that plunges your country, and the rest of the world, into economic recession and possible depression. Then ask for trillions of dollars of government help!
Really. Some people here show a very poor understanding of the most basic political terms and ideas. |
Nice post buddy! |
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ropebreezy
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| gakduki wrote: |
| The same topic is in the Current Affairs forum...read it there. MM is extremely biased, his unorthodox tactics of making people look worse than they are by suprise and careful selection are getting tiring. I wonder what solution he proposes, a workers utopia? Down with Capitalism, its better if we are all poor and only a few people are rich, than a society and a system that has put more people in middle class than ever before!!! |
I'm guessing you haven't seen the film.......neither have I........but....
.....I will come on here and eat a big slice of humble pie if this movie draws the conclusion that the whole system of capitalism should be abolished and replaced with socialism......
.......Moore is a liberal democrat. The same philosophy that the USA was founded on. He supports the principles of individual wealth and the pursuit of happiness. It's one thing to get rich in America. Done ethically, it's something Moore has no problem with.
It's a whole other thing to get rich in a way that plunges your country, and the rest of the world, into economic recession and possible depression. Then ask for trillions of dollars of government help!
Really. Some people here show a very poor understanding of the most basic political terms and ideas. |
To say "capitalism" was the cause of world recession is dishonest. It wasn't "capitalism," it was a bunch of Wall Street cronies, who with the help of their government buddies, pulled the largest heist in history. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| .....I will come on here and eat a big slice of humble pie if this movie draws the conclusion that the whole system of capitalism should be abolished and replaced with socialism...... |
I've got news for you... this has already happened, and long ago. We haven't had free market capitalism in America since 1913 when the Federal Reserve Act was passed, the year the bankers took over the money supply and replaced it with their inflationary fraud fiat currency (a literal ponzi scheme, enabled only by legal tender laws). Since then, the US has been a socialist country par excellence.
I can't comment on Moore's film as I haven't seen it, but the title is automatically misleading. Capitalism is not the issue - it's the banking cartel, working hand in hand with our utterly corrupt government (ie. corporatism). Corporatism and socialism are the same thing.
Centralized government power (far exceeding the power allotted it under the Constitution) over a command/control economy, funded by a cartel of extreme internationalist banking oligarchs, fronted by the privately owned Fed. I've never heard MM discuss these seminal issues. All I've heard him do is bash GM, a corporation that previously employed more people (at middle class wages) in America than any other, and was allowed to go bankrupt over a few $billion, while Obama flushed $13 odd trillion down the zomblie bank toilet.
If he socks it to the banks, then power to him. But he needs to get more on the ball, and start talking about the relationship between the Fed, the government, the Rockefeller-funded think tanks (CFR, Trilateral Commission etc.) which dictate government policy out of mainstream media sight, and the banking oligarchs who fund it all behind the scenes.
Last edited by visitorq on Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
| .....I will come on here and eat a big slice of humble pie if this movie draws the conclusion that the whole system of capitalism should be abolished and replaced with socialism...... |
I've got news for you... this has already happened, and long ago. We haven't had free market capitalism in America since 1913 when the Federal Reserve Act was passed, the year the bankers took over the money supply and replaced it with their inflationary fraud fiat currency (a literal ponzi scheme, enabled only by legal tender laws). Since then, the US has been a socialist country par excellence.
I can't comment on Moore's film as I haven't seen it, but the title is automatically misleading. Capitalism is not the issue - it's the banking cartel, working hand in hand with our utterly corrupt government (ie. corporatism). Corporatism and socialism are the same thing.
Centralized government power (far exceeding the power allotted it under the Constitution) over a command/control economy, funded by a cartel of extreme internationalist banking oligarchs, fronted by the privately owned Fed. I've never heard MM discuss these seminal issues. All I've heard him do is bash GM, a corporation that previously employed more people (at middle class wages) in America than any other, and was allowed to go bankrupt over a few $billion, while Obama flushed $13 odd trillion down the zomblie bank toilet.
If he socks it to the banks, then power to him. But he needs to get more on the ball, and start talking about the relationship between the Fed, the government, and the banking oligarchs who fund it all behind scenes. |
I also hope he doesn't give the democrats a free pass because they are in bed with all the players as much as the other party. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| xingyiman wrote: |
| I also hope he doesn't give the democrats a free pass because they are in bed with all the players as much as the other party. |
Exactly. Democrats and Republicans are nearly all members of the same Rockefeller-funded think tanks, namely the Council on Foreign Relations. They nearly all work for the bankers, this is an absolute fact.
Obama is the most pro Wall-street president in history. He has continued every policy issued by Bush, and even expanded upon them. Left and right wing in America is a false paradigm. One can either be for the banking establishment, or for the American people. There is no middle ground at this point, our economy is being plundered, Washington is an open sewer of corruption, and the government is openly working against the American people, handing everything over to the banks. It is nothing less than war (though most people don't even know their enemy yet)... |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| To say "capitalism" was the cause of world recession is dishonest. It wasn't "capitalism," it was a bunch of Wall Street cronies, who with the help of their government buddies, pulled the largest heist in history. |
I, like Moore, didn't say capitalism per se was the cause of the world recession.
You must realize that Moore is not a commie. He's a liberal democrat.
What has happened in the Bush jr. years is that even a good old fashioned liberal democrat, the kind of people who founded America and wrote the constitution, can be accused of being "lefty" or "commie" by the neo-con conservatives. Because they moved so far into the nutty right-wing, God is on our side, environment.
Those people are the radicals. Moore isn't. He's expounds the kind of principles that America is founded on!
It was the irresponsible practices of some bankers and loan companies who did it. Because they didn't have any checks. Not enough regulations on how they could loan money.
Capitalism can work fine.......if it's controlled. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| Capitalism can work fine.......if it's controlled. |
The less controlled, the better. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
| Capitalism can work fine.......if it's controlled. |
The less controlled, the better. |
Because? |
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roknroll
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Jack Manworth wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
| Mosley wrote: |
FAT Cat?! That describes MM to a "T".
Capitalism has treated MM very cruelly 
Obese hypocrite.... |
There you are........you guys always attack him for his weight.
Don't you have good arguments about his opinions?
Rush Limbaugh is pretty chubby. Do you hear many liberals attack him about his weight? |
Ah, but you see, Michael Moore has been a very vocal opponent of conspicuous consumption. Can't get much more conspicuous than a 50-inch waist. |
Obesity as a sign of wealth? So there are tons (pun) of posers out there! lol True that MM could be less 'conspicuous' in this regard, especially if he managed to get himself addicted to painkillers. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
Capitalism can work fine.......if it's controlled. |
Peter Schiff, in this, says:
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The reason why it was so easy to borrow all this money to buy houses was because of securitization. First it started with Freddie and Fannie. If it wasn't for Freddie May and Fannie Mac, Americans couldn't have borrowed all this money to buy all these houses. The only reason they did it was because the US govt was co-signing all their mortgages. And people knew that if you lend someone money to buy a house and they can't pay you back the govt will pay you back. So people were allowed to borrow a lot more money than a free market would've allowed because the govt was there co-signing it. We had too many people buying houses and credit was cheap.
Unfortunately, all the blame is one the free market, on capitalism - 'it's because there wasn't enough regulation', 'there's too much greed'.
President Bush in one of his speeches said that Wall St got drunk, and he was right, they were drunk. The whole country was drunk. But what he doesn't point out is....where did they get their alcohol? Why were they drunk? Greenspan poured the alcohol, the Fed got everybody drunk and the govt helped out with their moral hazards - all the various ways which they interfered with the free market and removed the necessary balances that would've existed and kept all this from happening.
Normally, when people are greedy, they're also fearful of loss, and people's fear of loss overcomes their greed and checks their behavior. But what the govt did repeatedly was try to remove the fear. They tried to make speculating as riskless as possible. First, they provided us with almost costless money with which to speculate. And then they created the idea that 'whenever's there's a problem, don't worry, the govt will rescue you; the govt's not gonna let the stock market go down, the govt's not gonna let your bets go bad, so go ahead and keep placing them'. It was nothing that the free market did. In fact, the only entities that needed more regulations were the ones that the govt created. If Freddie and Fannie didn't have a govt guarantee, they wouldn't have needed any regulation because the market would've regulated them. People would've looked at the balance sheet and said 'hey, you don't have any capital. You can't guarantee these mortgages - who are you kidding?'. And they never could've expanded the way they did. It was only because the govt stood behind them that people didn't care. They said 'ah, the govt will never let Freddie and Fannie go bankrupt' - and they were right, they didn't! Once they gave them that guarantee the govt had to regulate them and regulate them heavily, because it was govt money they were dealing with, not their own. For normal lenders we don't need any govt regulations. Freddie and Fannie were also the biggest buyers of subprime mortgages.
Once you separate the originator of the mortgage from the risk of the mortgage, you've got the moral hazard. These moral hazards got started because of govt and they wouldn't have been able to grow to the extend that they did if it wasn't for govt. One of the many reasons why so many financial institutions are in trouble, so many of the major banks (all of our major banks would already be insolvent if they hadn't got that money from the govt) and one of the reasons nobody cared is because of the FDIC insurance program. Nobody cares what banks do with our money once we put it there, because it's all insured by the govt. People do a lot of research when they go out and buy a plasma TV, but nobody does any research before they put their money in a bank - because the govt has created a moral hazard by guaranteeing the accounts. If the govt did not guarantee bank accounts, then banks would not be doing foolish things with our deposit. |
Read. Learn. |
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sluggle
Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Location: suwon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
Capitalism can work fine.......if it's controlled. |
Why were they drunk? Greenspan poured the alcohol, the Fed got everybody drunk and the govt helped out with their moral hazards - all the various ways which they interfered with the free market and removed the necessary balances that would've existed and kept all this from happening.
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Right-- this is a great response to the reason for this financial crisis. I feel that "Capitalism: A Love Story" is a misnomer for this movie. This financial crisis is NOT indicative of a failure of the free markets. Wall St did what they did because Greenspan kept the interest rates at 1% and encouraged cheap credit.
The Fed not only bought the alcohol, but cracked open the bottle and poured it into a frosty mug. |
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