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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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 Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Africa is the West's plaything. We don't know what causes development so we experiment a thousand times in a thousand different ways on Africa. We're no further ahead. They're worse off now then at the point of decolonization. Little has been accomplished. The hundreds of billions in aid have been for very little aggregate gain (including the good faith aid, and not just the farm subsidies in cover). Like virtually every other important policy in the west, we've completely hit a wall and yet don't have the ability to stop what doesn't work. We're drunk on platitudes. "Experts" actually thought (think?) that giving the poorest of the poor in the world computers would lead to educational development. This is so stupid I can't adequately slam it enough. |
We know the ingrediants in development but not the baking instructions.
I like William Easterly and have his book at hope. Aid can really screw things up. I don't however agree on that the laptop thing was a disaster. If western companies need trial and erro to be able to succeed , why can't a little trial and error here and there work with giving kids laptops?? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| postfundie wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Africa is the West's plaything. We don't know what causes development so we experiment a thousand times in a thousand different ways on Africa. We're no further ahead. They're worse off now then at the point of decolonization. Little has been accomplished. The hundreds of billions in aid have been for very little aggregate gain (including the good faith aid, and not just the farm subsidies in cover). Like virtually every other important policy in the west, we've completely hit a wall and yet don't have the ability to stop what doesn't work. We're drunk on platitudes. "Experts" actually thought (think?) that giving the poorest of the poor in the world computers would lead to educational development. This is so stupid I can't adequately slam it enough. |
We know the ingrediants in development but not the baking instructions.
I like William Easterly and have his book at hope. Aid can really screw things up. I don't however agree on that the laptop thing was a disaster. If western companies need trial and erro to be able to succeed , why can't a little trial and error here and there work with giving kids laptops?? |
Because it is an improper allocation of finite funds. If the west really wants to help Africa we can airdrop bed nets and birth control. We're wasting billions trying to make them into what we think Africa ought to be. My opinion is that we should leave them alone. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Because it is an improper allocation of finite funds. If the west really wants to help Africa we can airdrop bed nets and birth control. We're wasting billions trying to make them into what we think Africa ought to be. My opinion is that we should leave them alone. |
mises -- I think there is still a lot of paternalism and cultural imperialism in your statement. I agree population control is important but who is it for us to push them to do it? Plus, it isn't just a simple question of "a pill" but it has to do with economics/opportunity and most of all education.
It doesn't have to be either/or as you so wish to make it. Further, I think the focus should be on knowledge (you know the "teach them how to fish - don't send them bed nets" philosophy).
If western governments really wanted to do something they would
a) empower Africans through education and investment there. Like the laptop which tries to subvert the poorly functioning educational system and poor resources of developing nations.
b) stop allowing Africa's brains to leave and stop prostituting off her talent.
For the record - I'm against B - I believe in an international world where people can go where the money is, where they want, when they want. So I see A as the best option.
A lot of business reform needed and no matter how many caring professionals we put in place in Africa, nothing will happen until there are AFRICANS in place and in power who get it and can and want to create the proper climate for investment, infrastructure development etc...
What do you think of this ladies take? http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ngozi_okonjo_iweala_on_doing_business_in_africa.html I completely agree that Africa has to stand on her own feet and the only way is education.
At the same time, yes, we should send mosquito nets and malaria pills and low cost medicines, water pumps and yes, even birth control etc....
Madonna and Brad Pitt can't do it all by themselves.
DD
http://eflclassroom.com |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
It doesn't have to be either/or as you so wish to make it. Further, I think the focus should be on knowledge (you know the "teach them how to fish - don't send them bed nets" philosophy).
If western governments really wanted to do something they would:
a) empower Africans through education and investment there. Like the laptop which tries to subvert the poorly functioning educational system and poor resources of developing nations.
b) stop allowing Africa's brains to leave and stop prostituting off her talent.
For the record - I'm against B - I believe in an international world where people can go where the money is, where they want, when they want. So I see A as the best option. |
For the record, I'm against option A. How exactly does an outside influence "empower" anyway? Since the end of colonialism, that is all the West has done in Africa, invest. I say we should stop investing, stop educating -- according to our dictates and stop interfering. So I suppose that must mean I inevitably want to continue "allowing Africa's brains to leave and stop prostituting off her talent"? What ever that means. Well, no, it's not something that can be reduced to such a simplistic dichotomy. I favor ending the aid charade, altogether.
| ddeubel wrote: |
| A lot of business reform needed and no matter how many caring professionals we put in place in Africa, nothing will happen until there are AFRICANS in place and in power who get it and can and want to create the proper climate for investment, infrastructure development etc... |
Agreed. Africans must be empowered to fund their own governments. African governments should stop living off the "investments" of western donors.
Yes, Africans should take control of their own lives and their own destinies. It won't be done with platitudes of education and empowerment, though. Western donors should just leave Africans alone so property rights can take root and market economies can develop. Then governments will be held accountable to their own taxpayers and not western donors. Governments held responsible by their own taxpayers will then fund education. At which point, you can educate and empower all you like. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:05 am Post subject: |
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After watching the Sugata Mitra vid, "How Kids Teach Themselves", it reminded me of the Confucian analect which has intrigued me since I first saw it a month or so ago:
Quote:
VII.8: The Master said, "I do not open up the truth to one who is not eager to get knowledge, nor help out any one who is not anxious to explain himself. When I have presented one corner of a subject to any one, and he cannot from it learn the other three, I do not repeat my lesson."
Could the other 'three corners' be those kids directing/learning from each other? |
Kikomon, could be.... There is not a wiser book out there and if left alone on an island, I'd bring a good translation of the analects. Like so many of the Greeks - the focus is on education not schooling and the hunger to pursue and acquire knowledge and all the power it brings. To discover that secret order of things....
Pluto.
Agreed. Independence in a real sense is needed. But it is hard. So many hard nosed African leaders who use "independence" as a way of creating a western demon and a means of political control and not development. I don't have to list the many who've gone that way.....
I still think though that we should "share the joy" without expectations. If we have electricity, we should share this. There is a moral imperative I believe. Same with life saving drugs. Same with education - to acquire reading and writing skills and to know "of the world".
But at base you are right - can't have this and we'd be putting the cart before the horse if we don't allow Africa to develop by her own means and mature (whatever that means, I lack a better word). But it isn't simplistic and yes, "prostitution" is a very extreme and blunt term. I used it because it does suggest that the West never had good intentions other than their own rationalizations for their own guilt in getting much for almost nothing....
Cheers,
DD
http://eflclassroom.com |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:06 am Post subject: |
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Nice to see you, DD.  |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:54 am Post subject: |
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B.B.
Thanks. I've always been hanging around. I'm a little like that bio of Koestler, so aptly titled --- "The Homeless Mind".
I read a lot and spend 2 hours a day usually just letting my mind wander. Serendipity is a necessary anecdote to all the stupifying information that is thrust before us in the name of "modernity".
But I'm not jousting anymore. I've made peace and will stick to what contributes to something positive....learning the hard way. roll in the mud, you are mud....
Hope you are well and reveling in that sunlight.
DD |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Africa is the modern day anomaly. The developing world continues to develop and Africa continues to fall behind. It's best that we just leave them alone for the time being. The road towards development and liberal democracy won't be easy, and may even become violent at times, but Africans have to discover that road on their own. |
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