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Gibberish
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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 Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| To be honest, the entire reason a lot of people go to Korea is to live in a crazy society as an outsider. I know for me, it's the big draw. There's a certain autonomy and amount of anonymity that the place provides, and the alien society really encourages a lot of personal growth and introspection. Many people I've met that taught overseas, not even just in Korea, came back in good shape with a host of self-improvements. For some people it just is the way they want to live. |
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strange_brew
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I went home with a greater appreciation of my homeland. Korea showed me that it's nice to breathe clean air, have good food, more social activities, and basically, to not take for granted what I had. I loved working there too, with actual labour laws, and good employers. I had a good job and the only reason I came back is so that my fiancee can finish her school. After that, we're getting the hell out of here. Korea has served its purpose, but if you're not useless, there is far more potential back on the other side of the Pacific. 2.2 million won a month, won't take you too far. You have to work hard, but hey, that's alright. What is wrong with having a wife, and a house. Going to work and coming back home to enjoy your evening. You can't be 21 forever. I can go run outside, and I won't get lung cancer. But to each thier own. Just remember, you will never be fully accepted in Korea, at least not in our lifetimes. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| strange_brew wrote: |
| n. Just remember, you will never be fully accepted in Korea, at least not in our lifetimes. |
So what?
Do you want to be?
Guess what? In EVERY country where you don't speak the language and look different you will never be fully accepted.
I'm fully accepted by friends and family in Korea...and that's enough for me. I certainly don't want to be fully accepted as Korean...not if it means I have to put up with any nonsense from other people just because they happen to be my "senior". |
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steveinincheon
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: in The Shadows of Gyeyangsan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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The previous posts in this thread are about as specific and all encompassing as "Americans can't find their country on a map" and "Koreans smell like Kimchi and spit a lot". Yes of course there are many Americans who work 9 to 5, are struggling to pay mortgages, and do the same things every weekend. What has been described in this thread as a monotonous and mundane existence is not only a reality for millions of Americans, but also applies to a good portion of Koreans, Canadians, Brits, and pretty much every other developed population. How many Koreans work 6 days a week, go out drinking with their work buddies, struggle to send their kids to hagwon, and follow pretty much the same routine day in and day out?
There is however a significant number of people in every country that chooses to live their lives differently than the common archetype we see here. For one reason or another, all of us have come to work in a foreign country rather than do a 9 to 5 back home. I personally have friends back in the States who are doing trail maintenance for the National Park System who spend most of their time in the wilderness, friends who have chosen to live on an organic farming cooperative, and other friends who have found jobs in various posts overseas. Yes you can see the stereotypes in every town in the world, but if you choose to live your life differently you can find like minded individuals whether you are living in Korea, the US, or any other place. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Goku wrote: |
Let's do an imaginary activity,
If we lived in America, what would be doing?
Mon-Fri going to work 9-5 waking up, going to work doing some boring tedious job such as typing at a computer putting in numbers (actually this is what I was doing before I came to Korea). Afternoons involve going home, making dinner and watching TV. Maybe you would have a social life, but it wouldn't last long, people have jobs and their own families to take care of. Assuming we're out of college people are hooking up and getting married. Life is the same bland thing. in 10 years time you will settle down, get married and probably be working off credit card debt.
In Korea,
You work Mon-Fri yes, but as a teacher and with students. Everyday is different and lively and the world around you seems bizzare. You meet new people everyday. Not always good, but different. Everything is foreign and you have new experiences. You make enough money not to be worrying so much about "mortgages" and bills. You have plenty of liquid cash to burn anyway you want. Some things you aren't comfortable with, but let's be honest, if you were perfectly comfortable and content at home, would you have come to Korea?
Every time I get an email from someone at home I get a glimpse of the future I could have had. A mundane boring job meeting the same people doing the same thing in a predictable linear path. Coming to Korea changes everything, especially your perspective of the world. It's invaluable experience and will probably even change your personality.
And the economy... if you're from America, it's slim depressing pickings. I think unemployment rate is still 10% right? well if it is, that's seriously bad. People like us can't high paying jobs like we do in Korea with just a bachelors degree. The money we make and more importantly can save is a lot different. |
Sometimes it seems what people are really talking about here is the difference between marrying or living a carefree single life.
You mention having a mundane married life as though that's something that only happens outside of Korea. I think the reality is that marriage can lead to a mundane life no matter which country you're in. If you choose to stay in Korea and get married and have children you'll still be pretty much be doing the same things that you'd be doing in you were living in other countries (changing nappies, pushing prams etc).
The first few years here can be pretty exciting but after five years you get pretty used to it and you come to realize that fundamentally, life isn't really that much different here. In the end you have to make the choice whether to settle down and start a family whether in Korea or not and once you do that you'll find you'll lose some of your freedom no matter which country you're in.
Anyway, what I'm saying might not make any sense to you now but wait until you've been here five years or so and your Korean GF is pressuring you to get married. You might find your outlook might change somewhat by then. |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Goku wrote: |
Let's do an imaginary activity,
If we lived in America, what would be doing?
Mon-Fri going to work 9-5 waking up, going to work doing some boring tedious job such as typing at a computer putting in numbers (actually this is what I was doing before I came to Korea). Afternoons involve going home, making dinner and watching TV. Maybe you would have a social life, but it wouldn't last long, people have jobs and their own families to take care of. Assuming we're out of college people are hooking up and getting married. Life is the same bland thing. in 10 years time you will settle down, get married and probably be working off credit card debt.
In Korea,
You work Mon-Fri yes, but as a teacher and with students. Everyday is different and lively and the world around you seems bizzare. You meet new people everyday. Not always good, but different. Everything is foreign and you have new experiences. You make enough money not to be worrying so much about "mortgages" and bills. You have plenty of liquid cash to burn anyway you want. Some things you aren't comfortable with, but let's be honest, if you were perfectly comfortable and content at home, would you have come to Korea?
Every time I get an email from someone at home I get a glimpse of the future I could have had. A mundane boring job meeting the same people doing the same thing in a predictable linear path. Coming to Korea changes everything, especially your perspective of the world. It's invaluable experience and will probably even change your personality.
And the economy... if you're from America, it's slim depressing pickings. I think unemployment rate is still 10% right? well if it is, that's seriously bad. People like us can't high paying jobs like we do in Korea with just a bachelors degree. The money we make and more importantly can save is a lot different. |
Sometimes it seems what people are really talking about here is the difference between marrying or living a carefree single life.
You mention having a mundane married life as though that's something that only happens outside of Korea. I think the reality is that marriage can lead to a mundane life no matter which country you're in. If you choose to stay in Korea and get married and have children you'll still be pretty much be doing the same things that you'd be doing in you were living in other countries (changing nappies, pushing prams etc).
The first few years here can be pretty exciting but after five years you get pretty used to it and you come to realize that fundamentally, life isn't really that much different here. In the end you have to make the choice whether to settle down and start a family whether in Korea or not and once you do that you'll find you'll lose some of your freedom no matter which country you're in.
Anyway, what I'm saying might not make any sense to you now but wait until you've been here five years or so and your Korean GF is pressuring you to get married. You might find your outlook might change somewhat by then. |
That's a good point. One very valid.
I know some men in Korea who got married. It's somewhat the same, worrying about children and education. However, I think the difference is that they don't seem as much bogged down by making payments on mortgage and their credit card. Back at home it seems everyone's in this huge debt cycle. Eternally locked in place and unable to move or make changes. Whereas the married couples in Korea seem to have a general sense of freedom to move. While they are still caring and ultimately... maybe very good parents they aren't so set in this "suburban picket white fence" dream that people back at home have.
I talked recently to a married couple about their living conditions. They couldn't be more than happy with everything they have. Even their school hooked them up with a massive luxury apartment for their new baby (Not always the case though). They have everything they need (except cheap baby stuff). They still can travel and they aren't afraid of moving or going away from their friends.
I guess what it comes down to is not doing whats "expected" of you. In America, I'm expected to work a 9-5 with papers and a briefcase to come home. I'm expected to settle with some average woman and do average things. I'm expected to be... one of those guys, going to a pub every Friday night and throw darts at the same lame board. I'm expected to have a car and drive my kids to soccer practice.
Maybe it's just my feeling, but I think that married couples in Korea are more free and creative in their own life. They don't have the same issues and they don't seem to be so "keep up with jones" as much as Americans back at home. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Goku wrote: |
| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Goku wrote: |
Let's do an imaginary activity,
If we lived in America, what would be doing?
Mon-Fri going to work 9-5 waking up, going to work doing some boring tedious job such as typing at a computer putting in numbers (actually this is what I was doing before I came to Korea). Afternoons involve going home, making dinner and watching TV. Maybe you would have a social life, but it wouldn't last long, people have jobs and their own families to take care of. Assuming we're out of college people are hooking up and getting married. Life is the same bland thing. in 10 years time you will settle down, get married and probably be working off credit card debt.
In Korea,
You work Mon-Fri yes, but as a teacher and with students. Everyday is different and lively and the world around you seems bizzare. You meet new people everyday. Not always good, but different. Everything is foreign and you have new experiences. You make enough money not to be worrying so much about "mortgages" and bills. You have plenty of liquid cash to burn anyway you want. Some things you aren't comfortable with, but let's be honest, if you were perfectly comfortable and content at home, would you have come to Korea?
Every time I get an email from someone at home I get a glimpse of the future I could have had. A mundane boring job meeting the same people doing the same thing in a predictable linear path. Coming to Korea changes everything, especially your perspective of the world. It's invaluable experience and will probably even change your personality.
And the economy... if you're from America, it's slim depressing pickings. I think unemployment rate is still 10% right? well if it is, that's seriously bad. People like us can't high paying jobs like we do in Korea with just a bachelors degree. The money we make and more importantly can save is a lot different. |
Sometimes it seems what people are really talking about here is the difference between marrying or living a carefree single life.
You mention having a mundane married life as though that's something that only happens outside of Korea. I think the reality is that marriage can lead to a mundane life no matter which country you're in. If you choose to stay in Korea and get married and have children you'll still be pretty much be doing the same things that you'd be doing in you were living in other countries (changing nappies, pushing prams etc).
The first few years here can be pretty exciting but after five years you get pretty used to it and you come to realize that fundamentally, life isn't really that much different here. In the end you have to make the choice whether to settle down and start a family whether in Korea or not and once you do that you'll find you'll lose some of your freedom no matter which country you're in.
Anyway, what I'm saying might not make any sense to you now but wait until you've been here five years or so and your Korean GF is pressuring you to get married. You might find your outlook might change somewhat by then. |
That's a good point. One very valid.
I know some men in Korea who got married. It's somewhat the same, worrying about children and education. However, I think the difference is that they don't seem as much bogged down by making payments on mortgage and their credit card. Back at home it seems everyone's in this huge debt cycle. Eternally locked in place and unable to move or make changes. Whereas the married couples in Korea seem to have a general sense of freedom to move. While they are still caring and ultimately... maybe very good parents they aren't so set in this "suburban picket white fence" dream that people back at home have.
I talked recently to a married couple about their living conditions. They couldn't be more than happy with everything they have. Even their school hooked them up with a massive luxury apartment for their new baby (Not always the case though). They have everything they need (except cheap baby stuff). They still can travel and they aren't afraid of moving or going away from their friends.
I guess what it comes down to is not doing whats "expected" of you. In America, I'm expected to work a 9-5 with papers and a briefcase to come home. I'm expected to settle with some average woman and do average things. I'm expected to be... one of those guys, going to a pub every Friday night and throw darts at the same lame board. I'm expected to have a car and drive my kids to soccer practice.
Maybe it's just my feeling, but I think that married couples in Korea are more free and creative in their own life. They don't have the same issues and they don't seem to be so "keep up with jones" as much as Americans back at home. |
I think your description applies more to foreign couples or a couple where a foreigner is involved. As for Korean couples, I would say that many of them are very much concerned with "keeping up with the Kims". |
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xCustomx
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| English Matt wrote: |
Use the money you make here to retrain and accquire the skills you need to do the job you want to do, in the city, country and continent you want to work in. But most people I know have a dream....however it does seem like a lot of people who come to Korea check these dreams at the airport.
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This is why I came to Korea. Teaching English was never my dream, but I've found that I really enjoy it. I've saved up enough money to go back to America and will try my hand at a profession I've always wanted to pursue. Korea is always a nice backup though, just in case things don't work out |
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sarbonn
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Coming back to the states wasn't as great as I hoped it would be. Yes, the recession is still a huge problem here. And I moved back home to San Francisco where I ended up having to find an apartment in not the greatest neighboring city I could have lived in. A month in, I got mugged by three guys who ambushed me while I was walking up the stairs to take public transit. It was a few weeks ago, and I haven't recovered since. The incident is actually written up here:http://www.insidebayarea.com/opinion/ci_13308593, if you're interested.
Unfortunately, I was in a crappy situation before I left Korea (the boss decided it wasn't necessary to pay me and that I would never leave because he felt he "owned" my visa). So I left and hoped for things to get better back home. I'm a college professor normally, and I came back too late to get into the hiring phase, and even if I had gotten home early enough, there are so many people looking for professor jobs that getting a job even with two MA degrees is practically a pipe dream right now. |
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Easter Clark
Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Location: Hiding from Yie Eun-woong
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:10 am Post subject: |
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I'll echo what others have said about married vs. single life. There is a routine people fall into here, too. I come home from work, have dinner with my wife, watch a bit of tv, study Korean, read some, and go to bed...and couldn't be happier.
In my case, it's about working to save money so we can buy a house someday. I most certainly don't go gallivanting around Asia on my long weekends.  It's just life--same thing, different place. We've talked about moving to the US but what for? The economy sucks and it's hard for people to find work these days. At least in Korea I have job security. If I lost the job I have now I could have another one by the end of the day. Can you say that about the US?
But yeah, bills and responsibility are all part of growing up I'm afraid. That means thinking about the future instead of next weekend. If the time comes when I think my wife and I (and maybe our family?) would benefit from living in the US, we'll make the move. Until then, we're perfectly happy living in Korea. |
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roll_eks
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Location: Seoul from Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:32 am Post subject: |
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if you were unhappy at home, you hardly will feel better here.
but, admittedly, i'm making more money here than back home, dont pay taxes, can probably even double my income by doing some extra stuff, can call myself a "teacher", and as long as i smile and am jovial to my boss an coworkers, everything is perrrfect  |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Deleted
Last edited by Yaya on Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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roll_eks
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Location: Seoul from Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
| roll_eks wrote: |
if you were unhappy at home, you hardly will feel better here.
but, admittedly, i'm making more money here than back home, dont pay taxes, can probably even double my income by doing some extra stuff, can call myself a "teacher", and as long as i smile and am jovial to my boss an coworkers, everything is perrrfect |
I disagree, if you weren't happy at home, you probably won't be here or anywhere. Issues don't just change because you change locations. Of course, if you had financial problems, you should fare better here if you don't blow all of your money on booze and try to get along with Koreans. |
uh? i agree with what you say. my first week felt like h@ll, but contrary to what i thought, it's actually really easy to live here if you can stick to a daily routine, know where to buy good old food, and -more generally- come from a place of abundance. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| roll_eks wrote: |
if you were unhappy at home, you hardly will feel better here.
but, admittedly, i'm making more money here than back home, dont pay taxes, can probably even double my income by doing some extra stuff, can call myself a "teacher", and as long as i smile and am jovial to my boss an coworkers, everything is perrrfect |
It must however also help that you're not real.....
Just to help you flesh out your character though....if he's not paying taxes and can double his income by doing some 'extra stuff' (the mind boggles at quite what this might entail....turning tricks or selling crack on street corners?) and for the sake of believability, I would say that you'd be better off calling him a drug dealer, a mob boss, or even an imperial storm trooper...whatever....'cos neither things apply to us real people working as teachers here in the ROK. |
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strange_brew
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| strange_brew wrote: |
| n. Just remember, you will never be fully accepted in Korea, at least not in our lifetimes. |
So what?
Do you want to be?
Guess what? In EVERY country where you don't speak the language and look different you will never be fully accepted.
I'm fully accepted by friends and family in Korea...and that's enough for me. I certainly don't want to be fully accepted as Korean...not if it means I have to put up with any nonsense from other people just because they happen to be my "senior". |
But let's take that concept of not being accepted a step further. How do you think it will affect your overall upwards mobility in the job market? How many Koreans will put you in the top post? You think Koreans want to listen to the waygookin. How will affect you in old age? Will you have old age pension, a decent work pension, healthcare, and other benefits of living in your society? Or will it be a constant struggle, as you aren't Korean? These are few examples of how not being accepted may impact your quality of life. Yet, in Canada, if me and my spouse go back, she gets all the same benefits as me.
When we are young and healthy, it doesn't matter much if they accept us or not, but in your overall life, it will make a difference. |
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