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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| Donghae wrote: |
| Beaver, I think also that the Japanese learners of Korean you've come across have been mostly those at the very top of the scale. Based on those folks ONLY, I'd pretty much agree with you. But I've been in a position over the last few years to see plenty of people in a whole range of different situations and it's that experience that I base my observations on. Not saying 'I'm right, you're wrong', but that's how it looks from how I've seen it. |
Maybe you're right, but my position is this:
Yonsei's Korean Language program doesn't mix Japanese and other nationalities until level 4 because the Japanese put everybody else to shame.
At Sogang, whenever there's team competition activity in class, we spread the Japanese students out so there aren't any loaded teams. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:45 am Post subject: yes |
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| I think english speakers are the worst language learners out there. Mostly because we don't have to be good. We are the blessed ones. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:03 am Post subject: Re: yes |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
| I think english speakers are the worst language learners out there. Mostly because we don't have to be good. We are the blessed ones. |
Probably right, although I'd throw the French in as a viable contender. |
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Donghae
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: yes |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
| I think english speakers are the worst language learners out there. Mostly because we don't have to be good. We are the blessed ones. |
I agree also. I don't think there are many English speakers who have much of a right to bemoan other nationalities' language learning.
BUT..a few things you could say in our defence. English has so many acceptable varieties that learners have more targets to hit, an advantage we rarely have learning other languages. Also, it's often thought that the mechanics of English (grammar etc) are easier and more flexible than many other languages. That in itself of course means that perhaps the our language is easier to learn than theirs, but as well as that it's surely much harder for us having grown up with a relatively simple language to then try a more difficult one than it is to do the opposite of that process.
So a few mitigating factors, maybe....but yeah, can't deny it, definitely guilty. |
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peppergirl
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| the lack of Korean langauge education in Japan, but they are still way way quicker than those coming at it from a European language base. |
There is a huge interest in learning Korean now in Japan, partly due to the success of Korean drama series (Winter Sonata etc.). |
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peppergirl
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: yes |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| Ilsanman wrote: |
| I think english speakers are the worst language learners out there. Mostly because we don't have to be good. We are the blessed ones. |
Probably right, although I'd throw the French in as a viable contender. |
Yep, it seems whatever language French or English speakers try to speak, somehow it still sounds French or English... Esp. with Japanese, English speakers seem to just read the romaji as though they are reading English... sounds AWFUL! And then they wonder why Japanese can't understand them... (I know this is a generalisation, there ARE French and English speaking people who do speak other languages pretty well, but it's usually people who have been exposed to other languages at a younger age already) |
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tokki
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Korean is difficult. Its not just the English speakers that have a hard time with it, I am having a hard time, and English is not my 1st language. I can speak 2 languages fluently, can get by in a 3rd pretty well, and can understand several other Slavic ones to a level that I would survive in those countries quite happily before picking them up and getting to a high level of fluency within half a year. But Korean has got me baffled. Ive gotten to the level where I can have casual conversations about easy, every day stuff with taxi drivers and my boss for example, but I really wanna get fluent at this language.
Beaver, how much is that Yonsei program? Tell me more about it if you can.
Anyway, I like the language. It appeals to me, and if I spent the past year studying Russian and Ukrainian I could be fluent at them too...yet they have no appeal to me, and Korean does. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:06 pm Post subject: yes |
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I'd say the french are bad because they choose not to learn another language. From all reports I have heard, it is hurting them bigtime.
I think I am learning fast, but I could be learning faster if I wasn't an english speaker. I tend to surround myself with people who speak english well. I don't like having superficial conversations all the time.
I have a few friends who don't speak english well, and I found them to be the most interesting. Also, I really enjoy the awkwardness of bad communication. It makes for many laughs. I am gettin past the point of superficial conversations, but nothing too complex. Just about feelings and stuff, experiences, opinions, etc.
I said what I believe, but I hope to prove people wrong one day. I want to learn 3-4 foreign languages by the time I am finished. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:07 am Post subject: |
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All the words I've featured so far don't come from Chinese. Some of them are written in Chinese (Japanese 'gaman' for example) but those are just used for phoenetic transcription and have nothing to do with the meaning. Korean and Japanese are the only two languages I know that use the same particles, levels of politeness, verb conjuation, and similar vocabulary if you look back far enough. It's still a theory that they're originally the same language but I believe it based on what I've seen so far.
Apparently Japanese has some polynesian influence too. Some Maoris I know have told me that they only have five vowels as well, the a, i, e, o, and u. Japanese used to have seven vowels I believe... |
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