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Were Slaves Happy Campers?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Were Slaves Happy Campers? Reply with quote
Well, were they? Have we been lied to by our educational system and mislead into believing that slavery was a bad thing?

"Skousen's book characterized African-American children as "pickaninnies" and described American slave owners as the "worst victims" of the slavery system. Quoting the historian Fred Albert Shannon, "The Making of America" explained that "[slave] gangs in transit were usually a cheerful lot, though the presence of a number of the more vicious type sometimes made it necessary for them all to go in chains.""

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/16/beck_skousen/print.html

The article is relevant to some of the weirdness going on.
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The book kind of makes you wish that the south would rise again and crush the north.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Were Slaves Happy Campers? Reply with quote
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
"Skousen's book characterized African-American children as "pickaninnies" and described American slave owners as the "worst victims" of the slavery system.


This is right up there with calling allowing the Bush tax cuts to lapse "class warfare," or saying, "Poor people are only poor because they choose to be poor."
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Moldy Rutabaga



Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
They must have been a cheerful lot, singing all those great songs like "Amazing Grace" and playing those banjos. It sounds like fun. Nevermind being ripped away from your homeland forever and sent to another continent in chains, auctioned off, having your children sold, being beaten into doing grunt labor, and generally being treated like an animal. Sign me up.

>"Skousen's personal position," wrote a dismayed Quigley, "seems to me perilously close to the 'exclusive uniformity' which I see in Nazism and in the Radical Right in this country. In fact, his position has echoes of the original Nazi 25-point plan."

Um, aren't the Tea-Baggers the people who call Obama a Nazi? I guess these aren't generally people known for deep thinking. Interesting and frightening article.

Ken:>
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Koveras



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The justification or condemnation of slavery depends not in any way on the feelings of the slaves. In other words, happy slaves don't justify slavery, and unhappy slaves don't condemn it.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Koveras wrote:
The justification or condemnation of slavery depends not in any way on the feelings of the slaves. In other words, happy slaves don't justify slavery, and unhappy slaves don't condemn it.


I do think unhappy slaves, in the sense that slavery made them feel unhappy, is a point against slavery, yes.
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The slaves were also forced to clear mosquito infested swamps that none of the poor whites would touch. The book is just idiotic revisionism. If slavery was so good, why didn't the slaves just remain on the plantations with no earnings what so ever.
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Koveras



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kuros wrote:
Koveras wrote:
The justification or condemnation of slavery depends not in any way on the feelings of the slaves. In other words, happy slaves don't justify slavery, and unhappy slaves don't condemn it.


I do think unhappy slaves, in the sense that slavery made them feel unhappy, is a point against slavery, yes.


1) Then 'the slaves whom slavery made to feel happier' (a rather nebulous cause and effect, like yours) are 'a point for slavery'.

2) If the justification is based on feelings, there's nothing absolutely immoral about slavery, and it becomes an calculation between specific masters and slaves. Perhaps you agree with that, after all.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Koveras wrote:
1) Then 'the slaves whom slavery made to feel happier' (a rather nebulous cause and effect, like yours) are 'a point for slavery'.


I wonder how many people were truly made happy by slavery, though. Mind you, that's not the same as managing to find happiness despite slavery.

Koveras wrote:
2) If the justification is based on feelings, there's nothing absolutely immoral about slavery, and it becomes an calculation between specific masters and slaves. Perhaps you agree with that, after all.


A Utilitarian would probably agree with you, and simply argue that slavery is de facto immoral because systematic slavery will almost invariably decrease overall happiness.
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Koveras



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fox wrote:
Koveras wrote:
1) Then 'the slaves whom slavery made to feel happier' (a rather nebulous cause and effect, like yours) are 'a point for slavery'.


I wonder how many people were truly made happy by slavery, though. Mind you, that's not the same as managing to find happiness despite slavery.


Precisely why I called it nebulous. Similarly one could point to slaves unhappy 'despite slavery,' or in other words who were by constitution dissatisfied. If they're anything like people today, that'd probably be a large proportion.

Quote:
Koveras wrote:
2) If the justification is based on feelings, there's nothing absolutely immoral about slavery, and it becomes an calculation between specific masters and slaves. Perhaps you agree with that, after all.


A Utilitarian would probably agree with you, and simply argue that slavery is de facto immoral because systematic slavery will almost invariably decrease overall happiness.


I would challenge that utilitarian to prove it. But my truck isn't really with that utilitarian, who is at least consistent, but with those who would claim slavery is absolutely wrong while basing this axiom on feelings.

In other words I'm not pro-slavery, but I am interested in good arguments for or against.
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Fox