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TheMeerkatLover
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:58 am Post subject: |
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I heard fewer than 30 people actually voted in the ATEK elections. Most seats were uncontested and event he president's chair was unchallenged. That being somewhat undemocratic, they waited until there was a pawn to shoot at and then they ran ahead with a 2 person election with 30 votes.
Quite sad actually for ATEK. For all the pomp and news articles, it's proven to be about as entertaining as a dog-and-pony show.
Meerkat |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:06 am Post subject: |
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I understand and sympathize with Ms. White. She reacted better than I would have. In her shoes, I would have burned down Incheon Airport. But I can not imagine her being impartial.
I agree with others. ATEK is redundant. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
I understand and sympathize with Ms. White. She reacted better than I would have. In her shoes, I would have burned down Incheon Airport. But I can not imagine her being impartial.
I agree with others. ATEK is redundant. |
Redundant? How? What else is there like it? |
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cruisemonkey
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| Ilsanman wrote: |
I understand and sympathize with Ms. White. She reacted better than I would have. In her shoes, I would have burned down Incheon Airport. But I can not imagine her being impartial.
I agree with others. ATEK is redundant. |
Redundant? How? What else is there like it? |
LOL... T-J's got you there. As far as I know, it's unique.  |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Many other failed movements in the past. All deemed illegal foreigner unions by the government.
I was never enthused by the sound of ATEK, and after hearing their mission statement, I turned against them.
| T-J wrote: |
| Ilsanman wrote: |
I understand and sympathize with Ms. White. She reacted better than I would have. In her shoes, I would have burned down Incheon Airport. But I can not imagine her being impartial.
I agree with others. ATEK is redundant. |
Redundant? How? What else is there like it? |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
Many other failed movements in the past. All deemed illegal foreigner unions by the government.
I was never enthused by the sound of ATEK, and after hearing their mission statement, I turned against them.
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My point was specifically that this organization is legal and that they have gone farther than any other attempts at creating an organization in the past.
ATEK mission statement:
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The mission of the Association for Teachers of English in Korea shall be to:
*Establish the Association for Teachers of English in Korea as the voice of English instructors employed in the Republic of Korea.
*Advance English education as a science, art, and profession.
*Advocate for and represent members to all levels of stakeholders in English education.
*Improve the living and working conditions of members.
*Improve the usefulness of English teachers through high standards of ethics and conduct and provision of advice related to the same.
*Increase and spread best practices in education through meetings, professional contacts, reports, papers, discussions, publications, and online forums.
*Provide a community where English teachers can come together in a spirit of mutual collaboration to advance their common goals.
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What part specifically "turns you against them"? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| Ilsanman wrote: |
I understand and sympathize with Ms. White. She reacted better than I would have. In her shoes, I would have burned down Incheon Airport. But I can not imagine her being impartial.
I agree with others. ATEK is redundant. |
Redundant? How? What else is there like it? |
Interesting point TJ but just because there is nothing else like it it does not follow it is a worthy organization. I am just saying that tossing that type of argument out there is not the best way to sell the merits of ATEK.
Personally I think the election numbers you released are a sign of the limitations of ATEK. If after 1 year and change and a declared 800 member base it garners 42 votes for its very first elections...it does not bode well. If numerous offices were filled by default (One candidate) then it does not bode well either.
What it does show in my opinion is that ATEK should have aimed for a more limited scope from the very start. ATEK can very well become a simple network for teachers, a place to distribute information and perhaps link with KOTESOL to offer professional development. It simply does not have the resources or capacity to do more.
I have no idea who "won" the presidency but if it is Ms White it is the wose possible outcome. Considering her past and the tragedy she underwent it is unlikely she is able to see Korea fairly. |
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Bondrock
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Location: ^_^
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| Ilsanman wrote: |
I understand and sympathize with Ms. White. She reacted better than I would have. In her shoes, I would have burned down Incheon Airport. But I can not imagine her being impartial.
I agree with others. ATEK is redundant. |
Redundant? How? What else is there like it? |
Interesting point TJ but just because there is nothing else like it it does not follow it is a worthy organization. I am just saying that tossing that type of argument out there is not the best way to sell the merits of ATEK.
Personally I think the election numbers you released are a sign of the limitations of ATEK. If after 1 year and change and a declared 800 member base it garners 42 votes for its very first elections...it does not bode well. If numerous offices were filled by default (One candidate) then it does not bode well either.
What it does show in my opinion is that ATEK should have aimed for a more limited scope from the very start. ATEK can very well become a simple network for teachers, a place to distribute information and perhaps link with KOTESOL to offer professional development. It simply does not have the resources or capacity to do more.
I have no idea who "won" the presidency but if it is Ms White it is the wose possible outcome. Considering her past and the tragedy she underwent it is unlikely she is able to see Korea fairly. |
When you returned to the boards Homer you said it was just to speak on this issue of ATEK because you were very concerned about it.
Since your return to Dave's you have proceeded to voice your opinion on numerous other topics from chicken soup to hair implants.
Here, you openly state to not knowing who the ATEK president is; information that was carried by major newspapers and also easily found on the ATEK website.
Homer, you should be better informed if you truly "care" about this issue. Otherwise it seems like you are just yakking to hear your own voice. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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How they are so sour grapes about the F-2 privileges that some of us hold.
| T-J wrote: |
| Ilsanman wrote: |
Many other failed movements in the past. All deemed illegal foreigner unions by the government.
I was never enthused by the sound of ATEK, and after hearing their mission statement, I turned against them.
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My point was specifically that this organization is legal and that they have gone farther than any other attempts at creating an organization in the past.
ATEK mission statement:
| Quote: |
The mission of the Association for Teachers of English in Korea shall be to:
*Establish the Association for Teachers of English in Korea as the voice of English instructors employed in the Republic of Korea.
*Advance English education as a science, art, and profession.
*Advocate for and represent members to all levels of stakeholders in English education.
*Improve the living and working conditions of members.
*Improve the usefulness of English teachers through high standards of ethics and conduct and provision of advice related to the same.
*Increase and spread best practices in education through meetings, professional contacts, reports, papers, discussions, publications, and online forums.
*Provide a community where English teachers can come together in a spirit of mutual collaboration to advance their common goals.
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What part specifically "turns you against them"? |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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First you state that they are redundant.
Second you have an issue with the mission statement.
Now it's 'sour grapes'.
Is there a tangible reason to not engage the organization, be a part of it, and influence it's growth in a positive manner? |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
First you state that they are redundant.
Second you have an issue with the mission statement.
Now it's 'sour grapes'.
Is there a tangible reason to not engage the organization, be a part of it, and influence it's growth in a positive manner? |
It seems very likely that this organization that unnamed and unknown people are asking other unnamed and unknown people to support...has the potential to ruin ones professional career(here in Korea).
This is one real and tangible reason to avoid it.
There are numerous negative associations attached to this organization... precedents of recklessness and unaccountability have been established.
It is not yet clear whether the benefits this organization has to offer could outway the damage it could do...to both the reputation of ESL teachers in Korea at large, and the individuals who become involved with it...again, precedents have been established.
| Quote: |
| Establish the Association for Teachers of English in Korea as the voice of English instructors employed in the Republic of Korea. |
It has been mentioned more than a few times that this statement alone is a source for potential problems...specifically the article "the".
To still be making such claims at this stage of their evolution reeks of arrogance...demonstrating little more than their political ignorance. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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By the numbers (as TIME would put it)
800 teachers of out (last I heard 25000 teachers) is somewhere between 3-4%.
42 of out 800 is between 19-20%.
These numbers can be taken many ways. One way that they can NOT be taken is to confer any sort or type of legitimacy as the voice of foreign teachers upon ATEK. Not a flame, but merely stating facts. And as teachers come over in ever greater numbers those proportions are likely to shrink in tandem. Remember most are only here for a short time. Joining an long-term organization isn't going to be that high on their list of priorities.
Until such time as those numbers change, ATEK is and remains irrelevant to the larger teaching community. |
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OiGirl
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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There is much more to Ms. White than her recent tragedy.
ATEK is working hard to make other organizations in Korea look far better by comparison. |
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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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I refuse to be "represented" by an organization.
or union.
I "represent" myself.
My worth and value doesn't stem from the fact there are a 1000 or several thousand white sheep JUST LIKE ME.
My worth and value stems from the fact I am a black sheep... or purple..
or red.. etc etc etc |
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| What ATEK needs as a minimum is voter turn out. The first two elections were disappointing to put it mildly. If ATEK is going to survive let alone thrive as an organization it needs grass roots support. ATEK has touted the unverifiable number of 800 members, they should have over 50% voter participation easily in an e-mail voting system that is open for two weeks. We will see. I wish them success. If you are a member, please vote! |
Well, unfortunatley the vote tallies are not what I and others had hoped for. A total of 42 people voted in the election. No I did not omit a zero. Forty two.
The organization is in place. Representatives have been elected. This is further than any other attempt at a foreign teacher's organization has made it. The organization is a legal one. The future is in your hands. So many bitch and moan on these forums, do something. Be a part of the process, shape the future of an organization that is there to work for you, with you, if you take the time to stop complaining and start working.
Before those that have done much in the past without the strength of numbers or an organization in the past start jumping on me about how they have always helped others and fought for things in the past, let me say, I'm not dissing you or what you have done. I am saying that this has potential, but it needs members. The big risk has been taken by those that pushed to get this ball rolling. The momentum needs people behind it though.
To those that say ATEK has made huge mistakes, missteps, and blunders, so therefore does not deserve my support, I say that I have always been ATEK's biggest critic. I have not been malicious in that criticism and I believe that counter opinion and dissent are vital parts of any democraticaly run organization. The offer was made to be a part of the process to shape the future of the organization and I hope that some reading this will take that offer.
We need more than 42 willing people to be active in moving this organization forward. Step up. Stop complaining on Dave's and start doing at ATEK.
http://atek.or.kr/ |
I can't agree with this... How can I be sure that ATEK won't use my membership, and that of others, to push their agenda? I can just read the headline now :"ATEK and its XXX members want Y".
No thanks.
Your asking us to "get involved" is a big ask, if you ask me (no pun intended). I don't have time to give an amateur-hour "organization" over time with my family. Sorry, but the fact is, most of us, including long-timers, just don't trust/need/want ATEK.
Now, we hear there are one and a half candidates for the presidency, one of whom has issues with Koreans, and the other, we might as well call Mystery Man?
Where do I sign up? |
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