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ekul
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Location: [Mod Edit]
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 Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:47 pm Post subject: Grammar Help |
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I need some help explaining grammar. Now I could be wrong but I can't explain why I think some of these school questions are strange.
The students have to select the correct part of the sentence that's in the brackets.
He (is reading, has been reading) a book for two hours.
I (had been reading, was reading) the novel for an hour when he came to see me.
He (played, was playing) the guitar when I called on him.
The underlined answers are the ones that the book says are correct, yet I believe either answer could be used, although I'm a little unsure on the first question.
Thanks in advance. |
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babzie
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: S. Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The 2nd one is wrong but the others are right grammatically! |
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wawawawonder
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
He (is reading, has been reading) a book for two hours.
I (had been reading, was reading) the novel for an hour when he came to see me.
He (played, was playing) the guitar when I called on him. |
The first is correct. It is the present perfect continuous (or whatever you want to call it) used, in this case, to show that an action that began in the past is till going.
The second is wrong as it should be the past perfect continuous, effectively the same tense as in number one but moved one stage back in time so that it agrees with the later part of the sentence.
In the third case, both are possible but the second answer is more logical as it shows that the action was already in progress when the second verb happened. The first answer, played, suggests that 'he' started playing once 'I' arrived. |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Grammar Help |
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| ekul wrote: |
I need some help explaining grammar. Now I could be wrong but I can't explain why I think some of these school questions are strange.
The students have to select the correct part of the sentence that's in the brackets.
He (is reading, has been reading) a book for two hours.
I (had been reading, was reading) the novel for an hour when he came to see me.
He (played, was playing) the guitar when I called on him.
The underlined answers are the ones that the book says are correct, yet I believe either answer could be used, although I'm a little unsure on the first question.
Thanks in advance. |
I would say that the bolded ones are wrong. However the 3rd one He played the guitar when I called on him seems grammatically correct but just a strange thing to do |
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babzie
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: S. Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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wow you know your lingo
perhaps you could help with this one??
Task 8 � How would you explain the passive voice to a low level student using language they would understand? Give as much detail as possible of the study phase of this lesson.
spreading the knowledge is good huh! |
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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Grammar Help |
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| ekul wrote: |
I need some help explaining grammar. Now I could be wrong but I can't explain why I think some of these school questions are strange.
The students have to select the correct part of the sentence that's in the brackets.
He (is reading, has been reading) a book for two hours.
I (had been reading, was reading) the novel for an hour when he came to see me.
He (played, was playing) the guitar when I called on him.
The underlined answers are the ones that the book says are correct, yet I believe either answer could be used, although I'm a little unsure on the first question.
Thanks in advance. |
often, without knowing the context and intent of what one is writing, one is forced to "guess" which is something I'd rather not do.
However, I don't mind doing it when presented with options, then I merely pick what is often the best option.. aka answer
in this case:
he HAS BEEN reading is the correct option
He is reading a book for 2 hours.. the only time I can think of this being remotely correct is within something like.. oh.. minsu is not here. He is reading a book for two hours and even then I'd probably use the future tense to avoid any error or confusion.
I HAD BEEN reading is the correct option.
He WAS PLAYING the guitar is the correct option.
When using two past tenses in the same sentence like the one above, you are typically describing a specific point in time when occurred when something else was occurring continuously.
the reason you think both forms can be correct is because you hear people making these mistakes in colloquial English on the street.
Yet, if written as such on a school paper, you'd get taken to the woodshed. |
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ekul
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Location: [Mod Edit]
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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In regards to the first line "He (is reading, has been reading) a book for two hours." Would the first option be correct if the sentence was "He is reading a book for two hours as punishment."? Such as a statement, or if he was about to start?
Thanks for help on the other two, your answers generally were similar to my reasons. I just can't believe that these kind of questions get given to middle school kids who could barely order a pizza over the phone. |
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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ekul wrote: |
In regards to the first line "He (is reading, has been reading) a book for two hours." Would the first option be correct if the sentence was "He is reading a book for two hours as punishment."? Such as a statement, or if he was about to start?
Thanks for help on the other two, your answers generally were similar to my reasons. I just can't believe that these kind of questions get given to middle school kids who could barely order a pizza over the phone. |
yeah, but I think that example is very much the exception to the rule(s).
that's why I hate making blanket statmenets without knowing the context and the intent behind the phrase. It is clear to me however, that the best answer is has been and it'll be far more "typical".
and it doesn't take a nuclear scientist or even a grammar geek to notice that the use of the preposition "for" typically triggers the use of the perfect tense. (though clearly not always)
you're right these are assinine questions for ESL students. There should be little ambiguity in them. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:34 am Post subject: |
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There is little doubt these questions are terribly ambiguous.
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He (played, was playing) the guitar when I called on him.
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This could be either played or was playing.
Neither is better or worse...as Epicurus points out...context would be the only way to determine the proper answer.
He was playing the guitar when I called on him.
- I went to his house, when I got there, I could hear him playing the guitar.
He played the guitar when I called on him.(In this example called on him...could have different meanings...2 of these are....1-called on him(visited)....2-called on him(teacher calling on the student to demonstrate an abililty.)
A: "I went to his house and asked him to play his guitar for me. He wouldn't.
B: "Really? He played the guitar when I called on him."
"During the practice recital I asked him to play his guitar. He did.
Actually, he played the guitar perfectly when I called on him."
A further context to demonstrate.
The student has an option to play the piano or the guitar.
"When you asked him to play, what did he play?"
"He played the guitar when I called on him."
The examples are endless...and so too it seems are these horrid tests.
Ahhh...the joys of grammar.  |
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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:43 am Post subject: |
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great examples, Cosmic Hum
I would not have thought of those myself, especially off the bat.
to call on - is a very very strange verb. if you mean call on as in visit - then I would use was playing.
in the pedagogic example- I agree with the useage of played.
frankly I initially thought it was a Korean screwup and they meant to say "called". |
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seonsengnimble
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| babzie wrote: |
wow you know your lingo
perhaps you could help with this one??
Task 8 � How would you explain the passive voice to a low level student using language they would understand? Give as much detail as possible of the study phase of this lesson.
spreading the knowledge is good huh! |
I usually explain why you use it, and how you use it. You use the passive voice usually when you don't know who did the action or it isn't important. You also use it when you're writing a science paper in order to sound more removed and objective as in "four ml of HCL were added to the solution" instead of "I added four ml of HCL to the solution," but this point isn't really necessary for most ESL students.
You construct the passive tense by using "to be" and the past participle (If you want to impress your students, you can say "과거분사").For example, "The boy was eaten."
Last edited by seonsengnimble on Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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seonsengnimble
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Grammar Help |
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| ekul wrote: |
He (played, was playing) the guitar when I called on him.
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I missed this one when I first read your post because I missed the word, on.
"He played the guitar when I called him" is really bizarre but not incorrect. I just can't see someone playing the guitar when I call him. But playing the guitar after being called on makes just as much sense as playing the guitar up to the point of being called on. "Bob, play the guitar." "Okay." |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Grammar Help |
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| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| ekul wrote: |
He (played, was playing) the guitar when I called on him.
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I missed this one when I first read your post because I missed the word, on.
"He played the guitar when I called him" is really bizarre but not incorrect. I just can't see someone playing the guitar when I call him. But playing the guitar after being called on makes just as much sense as playing the guitar up to the point of being called on. "Bob, play the guitar." "Okay." |
When I read it, it was called on as in visited, so to me it was like I showed up and he automatically started to play the guitar. Where as he was playing the guitar when I called on him. He was playing then stopped when I showed up. |
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seonsengnimble
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Grammar Help |
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| blackjack wrote: |
| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| ekul wrote: |
He (played, was playing) the guitar when I called on him.
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I missed this one when I first read your post because I missed the word, on.
"He played the guitar when I called him" is really bizarre but not incorrect. I just can't see someone playing the guitar when I call him. But playing the guitar after being called on makes just as much sense as playing the guitar up to the point of being called on. "Bob, play the guitar." "Okay." |
When I read it, it was called on as in visited, so to me it was like I showed up and he automatically started to play the guitar. Where as he was playing the guitar when I called on him. He was playing then stopped when I showed up. |
Are you British? In my experience in the US, being called on usually refers to someone like a teacher saying your name in class so you can answer a question or do something the teacher asks. |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Grammar Help |
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| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| blackjack wrote: |
| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| ekul wrote: |
He (played, was playing) the guitar when I called on him.
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I missed this one when I first read your post because I missed the word, on.
"He played the guitar when I called him" is really bizarre but not incorrect. I just can't see someone playing the guitar when I call him. But playing the guitar after being called on makes just as much sense as playing the guitar up to the point of being called on. "Bob, play the guitar." "Okay." |
When I read it, it was called on as in visited, so to me it was like I showed up and he automatically started to play the guitar. Where as he was playing the guitar when I called on him. He was playing then stopped when I showed up. |
Are you British? In my experience in the US, being called on usually refers to someone like a teacher saying your name in class so you can answer a question or do something the teacher asks. |
NZer we use roughly similar expressions |
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