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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:29 pm Post subject: More Republican Hypocrisy on Health Care |
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Article here.
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Senate Republicans issued a blunt warning to their Democratic colleagues today: Don�t even think about using reconciliation to ram through a health care bill.
Minority Leader Mitch McConnell told reporters that Democrats suffer a severe backlash if they used the procedural tactic, which would allow them to pass reform legislation with a bare 51 votes. This warning is not new � GOP leaders have gone so far as to call the use of this procedural maneuver a �nuclear� option � but McConnell renewed his warning amid reports that the Senate could still use reconciliation of they can�t win bipartisan support for health reform.
�Let me say�budget reconciliation has never been used to structure one-sixth of the American economy,� said McConnell. �If that option were chosen, there would be a severe, negative, and I think appropriate reaction from the American people.�
�If you thought the American people were upset in August, you haven�t seen how upset they will be if this device is chosen.�
McConnell acknowledged today that Republicans had in the past used reconciliation to pass tax cuts, but he said the large impact any health care package would have on the nation�s economy made any comparison unfair. |
So the Republicans admit to using this process to ram through their own legislative agenda in the past, but insist Democrats not take advantage of it to avoid Republican obstructionism.
The Democrats need to just man up and stop worrying about Republicans. Republicans need to -- at least for the moment -- be thought of as political non-factors. All ready far too much has been compromised regarding health care reform in the name of bi-partianship, and the Republicans have responded to these compromises by changing the goal posts, acting as if the current, compromise-driven suggestions are the baseline, and demanding more compromise. Nothing will ever be good enough for them, so they need to be outright ignored.
What's perhaps most ridiculous of all is that Mr. McConnell seems to think that, in a society where many people can't even name their own governmental representatives, the American public could possibly be driven into a fury by the method Democrats used to pass a bill. If enough people were truly unhappy about the results of the bill perhaps there would be a backlash, but I highly doubt even one person in one hundred would truly consider the fact that Democrats used this particular method to pass said bill to be a deal breaker. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, you're laboring under the assumption that right and left, dem/repub have any real descriptive utility. You just have opposing sides who are basically the same (in that they want to further their own agendas), who ascribe to politically expedient philosophies. It's not as if the Democrats are the good guys and the repubs are the baddies. Either side will do what ever it takes to extend their power.
The health care reform process has next to nothing to do with providing better health care for US citizens. There are much simpler things that could be done to make health care cheaper, but doing those things wouldn't provide much opportunity for those involved to extend their influence. If McCain had won we would probably see something similar just with the roles reversed. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
Unfortunately, you're laboring under the assumption that right and left, dem/repub have any real descriptive utility. You just have opposing sides who are basically the same (in that they want to further their own agendas), who ascribe to politically expedient philosophies. It's not as if the Democrats are the good guys and the repubs are the baddies. Either side will do what ever it takes to extend their power.
The health care reform process has next to nothing to do with providing better health care for US citizens. There are much simpler things that could be done to make health care cheaper, but doing those things wouldn't provide much opportunity for those involved to extend their influence. If McCain had won we would probably see something similar just with the roles reversed. |
Yes, I'm aware of what ultra-conservative Libertarians think about the Democrats and Republicans. It's not relevent to Mr. McConnell's hypocrisy on this matter. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Hypocrisy? Both sides are hypocrisy embodied. As long as you keep buying into the false left/right wing paradigm, you're never going to run out of petty hypocrisy to focus on. The entire political system of the US is a sham, and hypocritical to the core. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
Unfortunately, you're laboring under the assumption that right and left, dem/repub have any real descriptive utility. You just have opposing sides who are basically the same (in that they want to further their own agendas), who ascribe to politically expedient philosophies. It's not as if the Democrats are the good guys and the repubs are the baddies. Either side will do what ever it takes to extend their power.
The health care reform process has next to nothing to do with providing better health care for US citizens. There are much simpler things that could be done to make health care cheaper, but doing those things wouldn't provide much opportunity for those involved to extend their influence. If McCain had won we would probably see something similar just with the roles reversed. |
Yes, I'm aware of what ultra-conservative Libertarians think about the Democrats and Republicans. It's not relevent to Mr. McConnell's hypocrisy on this matter. |
You're right that it's not relevant (but then you tried to make it relevant by making it a Republican/Democrat issue - just look at your thread title). |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Hypocrisy? Both sides are hypocrisy embodied. |
Fine. If you want to talk about Democrat hypocrisy, feel free to start a thread on it. This thread is about a particular hypocritical thing said by a particular Republican politician. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
Unfortunately, you're laboring under the assumption that right and left, dem/repub have any real descriptive utility. You just have opposing sides who are basically the same (in that they want to further their own agendas), who ascribe to politically expedient philosophies. It's not as if the Democrats are the good guys and the repubs are the baddies. Either side will do what ever it takes to extend their power.
The health care reform process has next to nothing to do with providing better health care for US citizens. There are much simpler things that could be done to make health care cheaper, but doing those things wouldn't provide much opportunity for those involved to extend their influence. If McCain had won we would probably see something similar just with the roles reversed. |
Yes, I'm aware of what ultra-conservative Libertarians think about the Democrats and Republicans. It's not relevent to Mr. McConnell's hypocrisy on this matter. |
I've told you in the past, I don't identify with conservatism. Libertarian is a poor word, too. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Hypocrisy? Both sides are hypocrisy embodied. |
Fine. If you want to talk about Democrat hypocrisy, feel free to start a thread on it. This thread is about a particular hypocritical thing said by a particular Republican politician. |
So, basically you just want to flame a dude who can't defend himself and have everyone congratulate you on how smart you are for pointing it out? Other than that I can't see that much else to talk about. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Hypocrisy? Both sides are hypocrisy embodied. |
Fine. If you want to talk about Democrat hypocrisy, feel free to start a thread on it. This thread is about a particular hypocritical thing said by a particular Republican politician. |
That's funny, you're thread title seemed to suggest it was about "more Republican" hypocrisy in general.
Anyway, I'm suggesting it would be much more productive to discuss the general hypocrisy of the American political establishment on both sides, since both sides are basically corrupt to the foundation.
I'm also suggesting that actions are much more important that words. Rather than getting outraged at all the mere rhetoric these two sides hurl at each other - why not focus on how the end result nearly always works out for the overall establishment at the expense of the American people? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Anyway, I'm suggesting it would be much more productive to discuss the general hypocrisy of the American political establishment on both sides, since both sides are basically corrupt to the foundation. |
Start the thread for it. I'll happily participate. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Anyway, I'm suggesting it would be much more productive to discuss the general hypocrisy of the American political establishment on both sides, since both sides are basically corrupt to the foundation. |
Start the thread for it. I'll happily participate. |
I think it applies completely to this thread.
Anyway, it's not really much of a thread, so if you feel I'm "hijacking" it, not to worry... |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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And Joe Wilson voted to fund healthcare for illegal immigrants.
There's obviously a difference between Repubs and Democs(?). One party wants healthcare reform, the other certainly doesn't. Some people like discussing these differences in policy. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
And Joe Wilson voted to fund healthcare for illegal immigrants.
There's obviously a difference between Repubs and Democs(?). One party wants healthcare reform, the other certainly doesn't. Some people like discussing these differences in policy. |
The argument over health care reform is completely moot, though. The Dem plan is no more likely to improve health care outcomes than simply doing nothing. It's like arguing over the color of the drapes while the house is burning down. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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That's your view on the issue Rusty, but I believe a public option would have a huge effect on America as a whole. Honestly, it'll probably 'trojan in' single payer... but more importantly it sets a precedent as healthcare as a human right. It will also teach American citizens that the government is there to provide for everyone and that, yes, it's socialism - society shaping itself for better community results.
I could argue this issue is far more important than anything that happened during Bush, inc. the Iraq war. Actually, I can't think of anything that is more important.
EDIT: Political finance reform is more important. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
That's your view on the issue Rusty, but I believe a public option would have a huge effect on America as a whole. Honestly, it'll probably 'trojan in' single payer... but more importantly it sets a precedent as healthcare as a human right. It will also teach American citizens that the government is there to provide for everyone and that, yes, it's socialism - society shaping itself for better community results.
I could argue this issue is far more important than anything that happened during Bush, inc. the Iraq war. Actually, I can't think of anything that is more important.
EDIT: Political finance reform is more important. |
Good grief. What part of the history of the past 250 years don't you understand? Those societies that chose free markets grew exponentially and now have the highest standing of living ever achieved anywhere at any point in time, EVER.
Those that chose socialism and collectivism have no better standard of living, for much of their citizenry, than that which existed 250 years ago. What is so difficult to understand? |
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