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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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 Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: US Health Care is BEST, even including uninsured |
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The New York Times
Science
To Explain Longevity Gap, Look Past Health System
JOHN TIERNEY
Published: September 21, 2009
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/22/science/22tier.html?_r=1
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| ...a prominent researcher, Samuel H. Preston, has taken a closer look at the growing body of international data, and he finds no evidence that America�s health care system is to blame for the longevity gap between it and other industrialized countries. In fact, he concludes, the American system in many ways provides superior treatment even when uninsured Americans are included in the analysis. |
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| Americans pay more for health care partly because they get more thorough treatment for some diseases, and partly because they get sick more often than people in Europe and other industrialized countries. |
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An American�s life expectancy at birth is about 78 years, which is lower than in most other affluent countries. Life expectancy is about 80 in the United Kingdom, 81 in Canada and France, and 83 in Japan, according to the World Health Organization.
This longevity gap, Dr. Preston says, is primarily due to the relatively high rates of sickness and death among middle-aged Americans, chiefly from heart disease and cancer....
But there are many more differences between Europe and the United States than just the health care system. Americans are more ethnically diverse. They eat different food. They are fatter. Perhaps most important, they used to be exceptionally heavy smokers. For four decades, until the mid-1980s, per-capita cigarette consumption was higher in the United States (particularly among women) than anywhere else in the developed world. Dr. Preston and other researchers have calculated that if deaths due to smoking were excluded, the United States would rise to the top half of the longevity rankings for developed countries. |
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| As it is, the longevity gap starts at birth and persists through middle age, but then it eventually disappears. If you reach 80 in the United States, your life expectancy is longer than in most other developed countries. |
When we adjust for race, nationality, obesity, and smoking, we find that the US has the best health care in the world, bar none. This is now. Even with all the problems caused by the government, including the fact that most insurance related problems including the massive number of uninsured is also caused by the government.
America already has the best health care system in the world. We can make it better by getting the government out of it. We can cut costs in half by deregulation of health care providers. This will also cut insurance rates in half.
We can make insurance more affordable to working Americans and make it portable by repealing the income tax. This will provide additional net income to most working Americans that is greater than the cost of health insurance. It will bring about the availability of "whole life" health insurance for the American people, available before birth and portable and non cancellable for a lifetime.
We can increase insurance competition and increase the availability of policies by eliminating the state regulation of insurance and health care. This will further improve coverages and choices and cut rates.
Finally, we can cut insurance rates 90% by allowing the purchase of major medical coverage through the use of high deductibles for those who wish to have the best care and freedom and responsiblity for their own day to day health.
It is time to cram the lies of Obama and his fascist-socialist-democratic party back down their throats.
We do need health care reform.
We need it now.
We need to get the government out of health care and health insurance completely. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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If you have healthcare based on profit the system will always want to treat people as much as possible. Preventative medicine will not be focused on because it hinders the business model.
Maybe lobbying will stop in the U.S., but if it doesn't the healthcare businesses may well lobby against 'healthy taxes' to keep its customers coming.
Furthermore, healthcare is simply a human right and you should not have a society where people can go without long-term care due to their income. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Just more pro-Insurance Industry Propaganda. What a shame.
No one's suggesting we stop developing medical technology. No one's suggesting we reduce the quality of our health care. No one's suggesting turning all hospitals into government institutions. We just want to pay for our health care in a different way, with less reliance on a for profit Insurance Industries that doesn't actually produce anything yet siphons an immense amount of money out of health care transactions every year.
If you really believe we can't have the same quality health care without the Insurance Industry being able to get away with what it currently gets away with, you're either:
1) In their pocket (like the Republican Party).
2) Blinded by ideology (like certain individuals on this forum).
The Insurance Industry doesn't profit off of creating health care, it profits off of restricting it.
| Quote: |
| We can cut costs in half by deregulation of health care providers. This will also cut insurance rates in half. |
Yeah, and we can raise our standard of living by 1000% by abolishing government. And pollution only exists because of the government; no one would pollute otherwise. And because of social security, we don't have space colonies.
To be fair, at least this is one of your less ludicrious claims. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
Just more pro-Insurance Industry Propaganda. What a shame.
No one's suggesting we stop developing medical technology. No one's suggesting we reduce the quality of our health care. No one's suggesting turning all hospitals into government institutions. We just want to pay for our health care in a different way, with less reliance on a for profit Insurance Industries that doesn't actually produce anything yet siphons an immense amount of money out of health care transactions every year.
If you really believe we can't have the same quality health care without the Insurance Industry being able to get away with what it currently gets away with, you're either:
1) In their pocket (like the Republican Party).
2) Blinded by ideology (like certain individuals on this forum).
The Insurance Industry doesn't profit off of creating health care, it profits off of restricting it.
| Quote: |
| We can cut costs in half by deregulation of health care providers. This will also cut insurance rates in half. |
Yeah, and we can raise our standard of living by 1000% by abolishing government. And pollution only exists because of the government; no one would pollute otherwise. And because of social security, we don't have space colonies.
To be fair, at least this is one of your less ludicrious claims. |
You're no less ideologically blinded than the crazy righties on this board. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
| If you have healthcare based on profit the system will always want to treat people as much as possible. Preventative medicine will not be focused on because it hinders the business model. |
This doesn't happen in any other market where private firms provide the good. Why is healthcare such a special case. And "Because health care is a special case." isn't the correct answer.
| Quote: |
| Maybe lobbying will stop in the U.S., but if it doesn't the healthcare businesses may well lobby against 'healthy taxes' to keep its customers coming. |
So what?
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| Furthermore, healthcare is simply a human right and you should not have a society where people can go without long-term care due to their income. |
Bankrupting your economy and not stifling natural economic growth is a good thing too. In a perfect world everyone would be 100% healthy and have access to everything they want. Unfortunately we don't live in that world yet. And having the govt mandate it, isn't going to get us any closer to it.
This might help you to understand a little better.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/health/policy/20view.html?_r=1 |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
Just more pro-Insurance Industry Propaganda. What a shame.
No one's suggesting we stop developing medical technology. No one's suggesting we reduce the quality of our health care. No one's suggesting turning all hospitals into government institutions. We just want to pay for our health care in a different way, with less reliance on a for profit Insurance Industries that doesn't actually produce anything yet siphons an immense amount of money out of health care transactions every year.
If you really believe we can't have the same quality health care without the Insurance Industry being able to get away with what it currently gets away with, you're either:
1) In their pocket (like the Republican Party).
2) Blinded by ideology (like certain individuals on this forum).
The Insurance Industry doesn't profit off of creating health care, it profits off of restricting it.
| Quote: |
| We can cut costs in half by deregulation of health care providers. This will also cut insurance rates in half. |
Yeah, and we can raise our standard of living by 1000% by abolishing government. And pollution only exists because of the government; no one would pollute otherwise. And because of social security, we don't have space colonies.
To be fair, at least this is one of your less ludicrious claims. |
You're no less ideologically blinded than the crazy righties on this board. |
Well, at least you refer to yourself correctly as a crazy righty.  |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| RufusW wrote: |
| If you have healthcare based on profit the system will always want to treat people as much as possible. Preventative medicine will not be focused on because it hinders the business model. |
This doesn't happen in any other market where private firms provide the good. Why is healthcare such a special case. And "Because health care is a special case." isn't the correct answer. |
What? Yes it does. Our society virtually revolves around wasteful, disposal goods instead of building to last. Tooth brushes. Lightbulbs. Roofs. Batteries. It's all built to fail, and fail fairly quickly too.
Unlike toothbrushes and light bulbs, though, when health care fails, people die. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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