| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
England has a free market.... and we have universal healthcare. It's not either/or.
Most countries in the West are Social Democracies. Yes, they include tenants of socialism but are based upon free-market capitalism.
Broadly speaking socialism is about helping the society. This is fundamentally what democracies are meant to do. Due to corporate capture the U.S. has been stunted in its development. Apart from the huge roadblock of political finance reform, healthcare is hugely important for American society. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RufusW wrote: |
England has a free market.... and we have universal healthcare. It's not either/or.
Most countries in the West are Social Democracies. Yes, they include tenants of socialism but are based upon free-market capitalism.
Broadly speaking socialism is about helping the society. This is fundamentally what democracies are meant to do. Due to corporate capture the U.S. has been stunted in its development. Apart from the huge roadblock of political finance reform, healthcare is hugely important for American society. |
You say socialism is about helping society and that sounds very nice but unfortunately the evidence doesn't bear out that proposition |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
'Society' is not a collection of individuals where you can average out wealth. Society is about inclusion and equality.
America may be 'richer' but is the quality of life better then European countries? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RufusW wrote: |
'Society' is not a collection of individuals where you can average out wealth. Society is about inclusion and equality.
America may be 'richer' but is the quality of life better then European countries? |
Isn't that what socialism basically entails? "Spreading the wealth around." For me freedom is more important than equality. I would say the principles(though not in many ways the execution) on which America are founded are much freer than those which Europe have espoused in recent history. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sorry, I was referring to measuring a nations wealth. Social wealth is far more important than measuring a nations wealth my simply averaging individual wealth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RufusW wrote: |
| Sorry, I was referring to measuring a nations wealth. Social wealth is far more important than measuring a nations wealth my simply averaging individual wealth. |
How do you measure that? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RufusW wrote: |
England has a free market.... and we have universal healthcare. It's not either/or.
. |
So does Canada. And Canada's standard of living has improved tremendously over the last 250 years...sorry Mr Rusty...but events just don't bear out your interpretation of history. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| RufusW wrote: |
England has a free market.... and we have universal healthcare. It's not either/or.
. |
So does Canada. And Canada's standard of living has improved tremendously over the last 250 years...sorry Mr Rusty...but events just don't bear out your interpretation of history. |
Really, why stop there, why not point out every other country in Western Europe too. The argument has more than a few holes in it |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| RufusW wrote: |
England has a free market.... and we have universal healthcare. It's not either/or.
. |
So does Canada. And Canada's standard of living has improved tremendously over the last 250 years...sorry Mr Rusty...but events just don't bear out your interpretation of history. |
Are you talking to me? It would help if you quoted something I actually said, rather than something another person said.
Maybe you meant Mr Rufus.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| RufusW wrote: |
England has a free market.... and we have universal healthcare. It's not either/or.
. |
So does Canada. And Canada's standard of living has improved tremendously over the last 250 years...sorry Mr Rusty...but events just don't bear out your interpretation of history. |
Are you talking to me? It would help if you quoted something I actually said, rather than something another person said.
Maybe you meant Mr Rufus. |
[/quote]
Good grief. What part of the history of the past 250 years don't you understand? Those societies that chose free markets grew exponentially and now have the highest standing of living ever achieved anywhere at any point in time, EVER.
Those that chose socialism and collectivism have no better standard of living, for much of their citizenry, than that which existed 250 years ago. What is so difficult to understand? [/quote]
I think he was referring to that.....I think just assumed you could connect the dots.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| shifter2009 wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| RufusW wrote: |
England has a free market.... and we have universal healthcare. It's not either/or.
. |
So does Canada. And Canada's standard of living has improved tremendously over the last 250 years...sorry Mr Rusty...but events just don't bear out your interpretation of history. |
Are you talking to me? It would help if you quoted something I actually said, rather than something another person said.
Maybe you meant Mr Rufus. |
|
Good grief. What part of the history of the past 250 years don't you understand? Those societies that chose free markets grew exponentially and now have the highest standing of living ever achieved anywhere at any point in time, EVER.
Those that chose socialism and collectivism have no better standard of living, for much of their citizenry, than that which existed 250 years ago. What is so difficult to understand? [/quote]
I think he was referring to that.....I think just assumed you could connect the dots....[/quote]
You haven't really refuted my point. Those societies that chose free markets succeeded, those who didn't died. Unfortunately many of those countries that originally opted for the free market have been enacting socialist policies for 50 or so years and are starting to pay the price. Meanwhile many of those countries that dumped socialism/statism are forging ahead and will surpass us in good time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
