Korean Job Discussion Forums

[asmith]

I'm married with an f-visa.

But if I were single, I think I'd go to China. That seems the place to be. It doesn't pay as well as korea. But money is not everything.

[proustme]

There's no way to work and live with a spouse in China?

[Street Magic]

[eIn07912]

Blah. You think Koreans can be bad with their inferiority complex and rampant nationalism, then head over to the "Middle Kingdom", which when properly translated means "center of the world."

Sure you wont make as much, but cost of living will generally be lower. But, standard of living goes down as well. Poorer quality of food and housing are an example. Lower standard of health and hygiene are another. Plus the pollution would certainly lead to some health issues. Seoul may not have great air, but at least the Koreans are trying to jump on the green wave.

You'll probably work more in China as well. Be given more responsibility and longer hours for less pay.

Not to mention having to deal with the Chinese government. Fact is, there is no youtube in China. Sites like facebook and open forums like we're on now can be restricted. That may not mean much to you now, but after a while of living in a box, and you'll begin to long for the freedom you have here.

In no way is Korea perfect. I can make a list of the things I hate about living here. I can make a list of reasons of why I'd rather be living (and will be living eventually) in Japan. But that "hate" list more than doubles when I think about China. They just have more problems than benefits at the moment. That's also partly the reason I don't see China as those sole super power in the world any time soon.

[asmith]

[The Gipkik]

When I think of China, and I've worked there, I think of a noisy, overcrowded circus. When I think of Korea, where I work now, I think of a cemetery filled with mosquitoes where all the activity happens underground. The two places share a certain love of human clumping in all activities, shouting, and loutish behavior, but they are very different. China is a police state, but for most things in life, the police are asleep. Yet, when the cops are awake, they are like a tsunami and little can stop the momentum. I've experienced this momentum at my school as I watched them tear apart an illegally built building.

Pollution is a huge problem--as is environmental devastation. Living there felt post-apocalyptic. Buildings were either getting torn down, mostly torn down, or built up again. Huge swathes of land were either being razed and erased. The last remnants of trees in my city were destroyed while I was living there and it was cause for mourning for me. Things are a lot less predictable, so there is a feeling of stress on a daily basis. The Chinese people are a lot more interesting, though, and full of passion and intelligence. There is still an ancient feeling about the country. It's a very interesting place to be if you can stomach the dystopic feeling of it all.

[proustme]

New prediction ?

I don't know much about it all. The U.S. economy is in shambles at the moment, but it always seems to come back. How long it'll take to come back to the surface is a question we don't know. Maybe its decline will outlive us as we're overseas teaching English.

[asmith]

[beercanman]

One thing that seems the same to me about Korea and China is the self-centered focus on the country, almost like the rest of the world is an abstract thing. I guess this could be the case in most countries, but in these two it is really a constant thing. Everywhere there are reminders of the country's name, the flag, everything, as if somehow people might forget which country they are in or something. And to the great majority it seems to me if something or someone is not local, it is totally alien to people and outside their ability to comprehend. This may be a bit less the case in big cities, in some areas, or among some people.

[hugekebab]

[quote="asmith"]

[eIn07912]

[proustme]

Touch�

[Janny]

asmith: [i]The American people--300 million strong--are waking up.

America will bounce back. But it's going to take a decade or so to do so.

We'll never be great again unless we get our manufactoring base back. But we will get it back. It's just going to take time.

We Americans are strange about money. We absolutely love the stuff. You take it away from us, then you're going to have a revolution on your hands.[/i]

Yeah, I don't know how to quote properly yet, so what. Wanna teach me?

Anyway, asmith....this is so optimistic of you. So strange to hear it. Are you medicated right now or something? (PS Love your blog)

As for the OP:
Korea: good money. Why? Because it sucks to be a foreigner here.
China: shit money. Why? Because Chinese people are easier to live with. They don't look at foreigners as second-class annoyances.

End of discussion. Korea pays well for a reason. If Korea was awesome, they wouldn't have to pay us so well. And pay our rent, for that matter.

[Mr. Pink]

asmith:

I am an F-visa holder and I brought my wife and child to China for a year to see what it was all about. I have to say, Korea is better in so many ways.

I am not doing ESL/EFL teaching, so my salary is comparable to what I would have made in Korea. However, my wife is not working, so that is a loss of money. My hours aren't bad and my job is pretty easy. It really doesn't feel like work most days. That is probably because I am at a great place to work at.

However, the pollution here is brutal, way worse than Korea. The driving here makes Koreans look like expert safe drivers. If you thought Korea was bad, don't come. When I go shopping people see dollar signs and try to rip me off constantly.

I also get stared at way more than I did in Korea. I went to eat at this one Chinese restaurant and the staff stood near us staring the whole time we ate. It was pretty creepy. (Come to think of it, this has happened everywhere I have gone to eat Chinese food...)

The whole comment on China being the place to be though is wrong. Maybe Shanghai or Beijing there are tons of foreign teachers who like the night life and culture. If you teach EFL/ESL you are going to make peanuts compared to being on an F-visa in Korea. A lot of people who come here to teach EFL have what amounts to part-time hours and they like that. Go check out the China forums on the international side for more info. (You have to register there to see the China-Living forums). A lot of expats have left China due to the recession. The cost of living is rising here as more and more Chinese get money, but the pay packages for foreigners aren't increasing. I could be making 2-3 times more money in Korea, but I am not here for the money. For those who are here for longer than a year, how do they save anything or get ahead? Single people might have an easier time, but not really. I live in a special economic zone that is designed for a ton of multinational companies. Most of the western expats assigned to those companies were sent home. I'd say the vast majority of expats are Koreans here. I hear from my co-workers a year or two ago had 2-3 times more western expats in this area, so the signs of the recession are clear.

I am here for the experience of it and to see how the Chinese live. So far, I am not impressed. That is because I am comparing it to Korea. A lot of people though get sick of Korea and come to China. If I was in a bigger city I might be more impressed, who knows?


Janny:

China pays crap because most people work 12-15hrs a week compared to Korea where they work 20-25hrs a week. Also the cost of living is a lot less. I pay almost 50% less for food than I would in Korea.

Korea doesn't pay that great if you factor in the cost of living.

[misher]

Lived in China for a year. Absolutely hated it.

The food gave me the runs. I was sick all the time from pollution and I was supposedly in one of the "cleaner" cities. Hygiene was also an issue. The people here who complain about Koreans horking, spitting, yelling and shoving should just hop on over to China. They will think Koreans are saints. My pay was enough to live, but if I even thought about buying anything western, my pay cheque would run out pretty darn fast.

Now I was only in the east part. The west would be a little more interesting and clean I would think. People were generally very nice to me as well but it was almost a bit annoying. I prefer the Korean indifference. In China I felt like an exotic zoo animal. Many CHinese were just out to use me too. I'm not saying it doesn't happen here in the ROK but I certainly haven't experienced this on the scale that I experienced in China. The nationalism is also ridiculous.

I went crazy after a year and left.

That being said I did have some good experiences and made some excellent friends. I would take Korea however over China hands down.