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Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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 Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| Just speaking for myself, I don't think men that frequent clubs are all that upstanding either. |
I don't think committing the same fallacy that all the guys on this thread are committing is going to help.
There are plenty of guys and girls that go to clubs, don't drink (like myself) and just go to meet people and be social. You might notice that if you go to clubs more often. Anyone trying to make a broad generalization about the people at these places when they've only been out a few times is silly, or whether they've been out a hundred times.
If you want to meet interesting people at clubs just be discriminating. It's not like a club is a random lottery and you have to speak to whoever is within a 1 meter radius of you. You can go out anywhere and meet good or bad people because they're at every place, whether it's work, school, or a club. You just have to keep your eye open for one you like then go over and approach them. Even if clubs were 90% full of unbathed people, you could still go up and talk to the people who had bathed, basically. |
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Forward Observer
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Location: FOB Gloria
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| redaxe wrote: |
| Forward Observer wrote: |
| I've had my fill of clubs, and now I want to learn salsa dancing. Any recommendations? |
There's a club right near Itaewon station called Caliente. It does indeed get pretty caliente in there on a Saturday night. If I remember right, I think there's a bulletin board with ads for salsa lessons near the door. |
Gracias |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Bryan wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| Just speaking for myself, I don't think men that frequent clubs are all that upstanding either. |
I don't think committing the same fallacy that all the guys on this thread are committing is going to help.
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I don't think giving an opinion falls under the purvey of 'fallacy', as no evidence nor conclusions was presented. Also if you'd had read the second part, you'd see I put a corollary to it, smart guy. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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There's a clear implication that it's okay for men to go into clubs and pick up "emotionally damaged" women to use "for fun", but the women who are the counterparts in this equation are "skanky", "outcast" "creatures". So. You can try to dismiss any chauvinistic implications of that if you want to by trying to make it out like you were only trying to make a practical point, but your original statements were just a little too strongly worded to be dismissed, I think.
Edit: Also, since when does a woman who smokes = emotionally damaged, used up bar skank?? I think you've been in Korea too long, ajeoshi. |
This isn't my opinion. If a women wants to have casual sex every weekend and doesn't lose respect for herself then I say all the more power to her. In Korea, if a woman does this, she is an outcast by other Korean women and men. It is not considered acceptable. Is that right? Who knows. That is the way it is here.
Smoking does not equal bar skank. Jesus. It is a combination of those things that most korean women who frequent these types of establishments tend to be and do. Smoking for a Korean woman is insanely rebellious. This isn't just some chauvinistic opinion. It has been told by many Korean women and men that tend to stay away from these types of places and they aren't bible thumpers either.
If you want I can write an exact similar post about all the douchebag guys that go to these places and hit on these types of women hoping for some fun only to brag about it the next day. Some guys want that. That is fine but I don't respect this kind of behavior either and tend to stay away from guys that do this. Although you think I am implying that men get a free pass, in no way do I think this. There is no double standard here. |
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detourne_me
Joined: 26 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| nosmallplans wrote: |
Maybe it's just me but every club night with the crew just ends in me spending a bunch of money so that I can drag my drunk ass friends around Hongdae at 4 in the morning.
Yeah, I could just get plastered before they do... but I don't trust them to keep me of the gutter.*
Every decent girl I've met in this country has been out of a club. Every bit of terrible news I've gotten from a girl has happened in a club. F going to clubs for anything other than making mistakes.
*Funny story, did anyone see the guy laying out in front of Gold Bar this past Saturday? Must've been around 3:00AM, laying flat on his back, in clear view with his pants around his knees pissing straight up into the air and onto his chest. It was like some kind of perverse, drunken fountain. The best part was that his friends were standing around him in a circle laughing.**
**Proof you can't trust anyone to keep you from making a fool of yourself. |
Oh man, was it that Korean guy with the blue shirt? I saw him lying out there, unfortunately i missed the pee fountain. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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korean women have a VERY short clubbing life.. and they know it...
men its a different story... they will keep drinking and partying way into their marriage days... most korean women will party from the age of 22-30... thats 8 years .. not even.. most will want to find a serious boyfriend around 26-28 to secure their marriage to a good guy... if they wait till after 32 its getting serious late.. you want see many korean girls 34 in clubs in Hongdae.. but how many men do you see? how man foreign girls do you see over 30?
so young korean girls want to try it all.. SMOKE, maybe sex with a foreign guy, dance and be wild.. do something crazy etc.. if a korean girl is not one of those girls who will marry a foreigner.. she is out looking for MR right korean guy...
and usually its through a blind date or through friends.. not on the dance floor of TINPAN or M2...
those girls are usuallly just out for a good time... |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Misher, the problem is that you're equating a woman having casual sex every other weekend with a douchebag guy who hits on all the women and then brags about it later.
Why is it that a woman behaving normally (having casual sex) is equated to a man behaving somewhat abnormally (being a douche)?
What is 'bad' about a woman wanting to have casual sex and smoke? It doesn't matter if the host country does or doesn't "accept" this behavior. |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
Misher, the problem is that you're equating a woman having casual sex every other weekend with a douchebag guy who hits on all the women and then brags about it later.
Why is it that a woman behaving normally (having casual sex) is equated to a man behaving somewhat abnormally (being a douche)?
What is 'bad' about a woman wanting to have casual sex and smoke? It doesn't matter if the host country does or doesn't "accept" this behavior. |
This.
Plus, you seem to think that I think you slamming men would make this all more acceptable. I don't want you to write nasty things about men who go to clubs. I don't think nasty things about men who go to clubs. What's wrong with going out and having a good time every now and then? As long as he doesn't live and die by it, going out every night of the week and accomplishing little else with his life in the meantime... who cares? |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
Misher, the problem is that you're equating a woman having casual sex every other weekend with a douchebag guy who hits on all the women and then brags about it later.
Why is it that a woman behaving normally (having casual sex) is equated to a man behaving somewhat abnormally (being a douche)?
What is 'bad' about a woman wanting to have casual sex and smoke? It doesn't matter if the host country does or doesn't "accept" this behavior. |
There is nothing innately good or bad about having casual sex for men or for women. Smoking is a different story. It's about perception. Sure, a Korean woman can go her own way and go clubbing and smoke, but unless she's been living overseas, she'll feel great pressure from society to conform. Most women are gregarious and social creatures--moreso than men--and need this kind of social approbation. In fact, they would be terrified to break this unspoken contract. Women are much more worried about breaking the rules than men are just as men are much more willing to take risks (this isn't my opinion, but study after study has shown this to hold true). This holds especially true for men and women in most traditional societies. Women, like men, are not autonomous individuals here that go about their lives under their own volition.
Now, as for my opinion, I don't like women who smoke because I don't smoke. I also don't like women who practice frequent casual sex because it's not something I do either. Here I am talking about women that I might be romantically interested in, otherwise who cares. Westerners are spoiled for choice when it comes to following their own lifestyles. This is Korea. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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I've been laid plenty of times from girls I met in clubs in Korea (foriegners and Koreans) and I think I met one great girl, but things didn't work out (mainly due to me) so I can never say she was a great one for sure. In fact she was an utter bitch after the seperations... but still,I go off on a tangent.... I met a great one in Helios but alas she lives in Japan and I couldn't afford to move there at the time and though we tried briefly, we were both so intense we couldn;t handle long distance...
Clubs prob not best place to meet nice gf / bf material though, what with them being full of young, often shalllow, desperate and drunk people... just sayin'.... |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The Gipkik wrote: |
| kabrams wrote: |
Misher, the problem is that you're equating a woman having casual sex every other weekend with a douchebag guy who hits on all the women and then brags about it later.
Why is it that a woman behaving normally (having casual sex) is equated to a man behaving somewhat abnormally (being a douche)?
What is 'bad' about a woman wanting to have casual sex and smoke? It doesn't matter if the host country does or doesn't "accept" this behavior. |
There is nothing innately good or bad about having casual sex for men or for women. Smoking is a different story. It's about perception. Sure, a Korean woman can go her own way and go clubbing and smoke, but unless she's been living overseas, she'll feel great pressure from society to conform. Most women are gregarious and social creatures--moreso than men--and need this kind of social approbation. In fact, they would be terrified to break this unspoken contract. Women are much more worried about breaking the rules than men are just as men are much more willing to take risks (this isn't my opinion, but study after study has shown this to hold true). This holds especially true for men and women in most traditional societies. Women, like men, are not autonomous individuals here that go about their lives under their own volition.
Now, as for my opinion, I don't like women who smoke because I don't smoke. I also don't like women who practice frequent casual sex because it's not something I do either. Here I am talking about women that I might be romantically interested in, otherwise who cares. Westerners are spoiled for choice when it comes to following their own lifestyles. This is Korea. |
Read her last sentence one more time and start over.
Anyway, we get it -- you prefer women who cave in to other people's opinions about them. Good luck with Korean women then, considering you're a foreigner, and dating a foreigner is not exactly the most 'done' thing by 'good' Korean women in Korean society either.
Oh, the boxes you men put yourselves in with this nonsense.
By the way, women are more worried about breaking rules than men by nature, as proved by "study" after nameless "study"? Lol. Men don't have nearly as many rules as women to begin with, sport.
Men trying to talk about gender and sociology on this forum make me cringe. It's like listening to your grandpa talk about race relations. They may mean will, but they haven't the slightest clue what's actually going on, most of the time. |
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redaxe
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
Men trying to talk about gender and sociology on this forum make me cringe. It's like listening to your grandpa talk about race relations. They may mean will, but they haven't the slightest clue what's actually going on, most of the time. |
Agreed, this thread in particular turned cringe-worthy real fast, but it is one of countless. |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| redaxe wrote: |
| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
Men trying to talk about gender and sociology on this forum make me cringe. It's like listening to your grandpa talk about race relations. They may mean will, but they haven't the slightest clue what's actually going on, most of the time. |
Agreed, this thread in particular turned cringe-worthy real fast, but it is one of countless. |
To the forum's collective credit, though, these days there are quite a few reasonable men around making fair points and calling the honorary ajeoshi out on their ways of thinking. It gives me hope. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
| redaxe wrote: |
| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
Men trying to talk about gender and sociology on this forum make me cringe. It's like listening to your grandpa talk about race relations. They may mean will, but they haven't the slightest clue what's actually going on, most of the time. |
Agreed, this thread in particular turned cringe-worthy real fast, but it is one of countless. |
To the forum's collective credit, though, these days there are quite a few reasonable men around making fair points and calling the honorary ajeoshi out on their ways of thinking. It gives me hope. |
I was out in what used to be Limelight (now the cr*ppy Hard Rock Cafe) with a group of foriegners and Koreans. This one Korean guy in his late twenties kept taking all the girl's (foiregn and Korean) cigarettes off of them and crushing them etc and telling them off for smoking.
Everyone there men, women, Korean and foriegn thought he was an arsehole and asked him to leave. |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
| redaxe wrote: |
| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
Men trying to talk about gender and sociology on this forum make me cringe. It's like listening to your grandpa talk about race relations. They may mean will, but they haven't the slightest clue what's actually going on, most of the time. |
Agreed, this thread in particular turned cringe-worthy real fast, but it is one of countless. |
To the forum's collective credit, though, these days there are quite a few reasonable men around making fair points and calling the honorary ajeoshi out on their ways of thinking. It gives me hope. |
I was out in what used to be Limelight (now the cr*ppy Hard Rock Cafe) with a group of foriegners and Koreans. This one Korean guy in his late twenties kept taking all the girl's (foiregn and Korean) cigarettes off of them and crushing them etc and telling them off for smoking.
Everyone there men, women, Korean and foriegn thought he was an arsehole and asked him to leave. |
Someone grabbing for my lit cigarette while trying to tell me what I can and cannot do, based on the fact that I'm a woman, is just asking for it.
Oops. Was that your eye? Of all the rotten luck.... |
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