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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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 Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
I was out in what used to be Limelight (now the cr*ppy Hard Rock Cafe) with a group of foriegners and Koreans. This one Korean guy in his late twenties kept taking all the girl's (foiregn and Korean) cigarettes off of them and crushing them etc and telling them off for smoking.
Everyone there men, women, Korean and foriegn thought he was an arsehole and asked him to leave. |
A bit outlandish perhaps, but not all that surprising -- except that he would dare do that to a foreigner, that's a new level of cheek I'm not best pleased to see from the locals.
Some years earlier, back when that arsehole would have been a teenager, I was at a bank in Shinchon with my Japanese girlfriend and her 18-yr-old kid sister who was visiting Korea. While we were at the counter dealing with a teller, the younger sister waited for us on a sofa the at the front of the bank.
All Korean bank branches at the time had those big, long rows of sofas lining the entire front wall, stocked with women's magazines for female customers and ashtrays for the rest of us. (Yes, children--we could smoke at banks up until last Tuesday, and smoking in hospital lobbies was practically enforced by law.) Well, kid sister didn't comprehend which was intended for who, and that brazen little hussy reached into her Hello Kitty purse, pulled out a Mild Seven and lit up. Just like that.
Or so we were told. All we heard was the girl squealing and the old ajeoshi bank guard barking insults at her. He had apparently seen her light up, swaggered over from his Old Ajeoshi Bank Guard Desk, snatched it out of her mouth, stamped it out, SLAPPED HER MOUTH and attempted to learn her some manners.
We ran over and the two girls unleashed a short, sharp barrage of Japanese invective on the bank guard, who was completely staggered. Hadn't the foggiest she wasn't Korean, and so of course was apologising & bowing & scraping all over the place until we left. He was almost shaking, and I took his apologies to be entirely genuine.
Last edited by JongnoGuru on Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
I was out in what used to be Limelight (now the cr*ppy Hard Rock Cafe) with a group of foriegners and Koreans. This one Korean guy in his late twenties kept taking all the girl's (foiregn and Korean) cigarettes off of them and crushing them etc and telling them off for smoking.
Everyone there men, women, Korean and foriegn thought he was an arsehole and asked him to leave. |
Oh, a bit outlandish perhaps, but not all that surprising, really. Some years earlier, back when that arsehole would have been a teenager, I was at a bank in Shinchon with my Japanese girlfriend and her 18-yr-old kid sister who was visiting Korea. While we were at the counter dealing with a teller, the younger sister waited for us on a sofa the at the front of the bank.
All Korean bank branches at the time had those big, long rows of sofas lining the entire front wall, stocked with women's magazines for female customers and ashtrays for the rest of us. Well, kid sister didn't comprehend which was intended for who, and that brazen little hussy reached into her Hello Kitty purse, pulled out a Mild Seven and lit up. Just like that.
Or so we were told. All we heard was the girl squealing and the old ajeoshi bank guard barking insults at her. He had apparently seen her light up, swaggered over from his Old Ajeoshi Bank Guard Desk, snatched it out of her mouth, stamped it out, SLAPPED HER MOUTH and attempted to learn her some manners.
We ran over and the two girls unleashed a short, sharp barrage of Japanese invective on the bank guard, who was completely staggered. Hadn't the foggiest she wasn't Korean, and so of course was apologising & bowing & scraping all over the place until we left. He was almost shaking, and I took his apologies to be entirely genuine. |
I actually have to eat my (previous) words on this forum about never once having been harassed by ajeoshi for smoking in public, because it happened for the first time this weekend while I was sitting outside the bar my friend owns (drinking COFFEE) on a Sunday afternoon.
They didn't even bother to try in English, but were just screaming about it in Korean. Luckily my (well-built, 36 year old male) friend heard from inside, and came straight out to tell them where they could go and how they could get there. |
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DaeguNL
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Back to the OP's topic, You never know, you could meet your future wife at a bar. Just because she is out having fun at a club doesnt mean she is damaged goods |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
Read her last sentence one more time and start over.
Anyway, we get it -- you prefer women who cave in to other people's opinions about them. Good luck with Korean women then, considering you're a foreigner, and dating a foreigner is not exactly the most 'done' thing by 'good' Korean women in Korean society either.
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First, this isn't a host country. It's a country. And if you don't like the customs that men and women observe here, barring outrageous human rights aberrations. Get out. And no you don't get it. You don't have a clue. Why make it personal? Did I say I say that this was my standard with Korean women? Did I say that I prefer women to cave in to other people's opinions? Have you actually been reading my threads? Because they will contradict this ridiculous observation. Hell no. Concerning smoking and promiscuous sex, this is my standard with ALL women, hot or not. If you smoke when I don't. If you like to screw guys indiscriminately every weekend then get out of my way. If you think this is cave man behavior, you are either ignorant or brainwashed. Hey go ahead and smoke and have loads of casual sex, I won't judge you as an individual because you have a right to behave that way, but not with me you don't.
I'm sorry you hate men Picasso, but that's not my problem. |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
Men trying to talk about gender and sociology on this forum make me cringe. It's like listening to your grandpa talk about race relations. They may mean will, but they haven't the slightest clue what's actually going on, most of the time. |
Nonsense. You're arrogant and you're trying to set the agenda. Who the hell do you think you are? |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The Gipkik wrote: |
| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
Men trying to talk about gender and sociology on this forum make me cringe. It's like listening to your grandpa talk about race relations. They may mean will, but they haven't the slightest clue what's actually going on, most of the time. |
Nonsense. You're arrogant and you're trying to set the agenda. Who the hell do you think you are? |
I don't agree fully but I can see what you're getting at. It's like - this is the enlightened feminist view of the world and if you're not down with it you're a caveman lol... only a little and only sometimes tho... |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
I don't agree fully but I can see what you're getting at. It's like - this is the enlightened feminist view of the world and if you're not down with it you're a caveman lol... only a little and only sometimes tho... |
Honestly, I'm trying to think how I'd qualify as a cave man. This is stretching my more than fecund imagination. Apart from being a man. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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First, this isn't a host country. It's a country. |
It's a host country for the people I'm talking about. As in, foreign/internationals living/teaching/breathing in Korea. Their host country, because it's not their home country.
| Quote: |
| And if you don't like the customs that men and women observe here, barring outrageous human rights aberrations. |
It never ceases to amaze me that people still make this argument. You can disagree with something a country does, or (gasp!) not like something your host country does, while at the same time, appreciate living there.
Life isn't an "either/or" situation.
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I'm sorry you hate men Picasso, but that's not my problem. |
How does she hate men, again?
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| Hey go ahead and smoke and have loads of casual sex, I won't judge you as an individual because you have a right to behave that way |
That way. I mean, we are all entitled to live life the way we live, but if you say you won't judge people, I don't understand why it has to be "this way" versus "that way" if we're truly being non-judgmental.
It doesn't matter if the host, home or whatever country believes women should be have a certain way. Women are entitled to behave however they please, just like men. It always amazes me how quickly people are able to suspend women's rights/freedoms to do what they want because "that's just how it is".
I mean, seriously, women can't even smoke without getting slapped in the face/harassed? Women can't dance in a club without being labeled a *beep*? Women can't have casual sex without being compared to a male douchebag? |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
It's a host country for the people I'm talking about. As in, foreign/internationals living/teaching/breathing in Korea. Their host country, because it's not their home country. . |
Concerning what I've contributed to this thread, and the angle that Picasso offered, this is irrelevant. It is a country.
| kabrams wrote: |
It never ceases to amaze me that people still make this argument. You can disagree with something a country does, or (gasp!) not like something your host country does, while at the same time, appreciate living there.
Life isn't an "either/or" situation. . |
Never said it was, but this isn't strong enough to indict Korean men and women from their traditional customs. The argument that was offered was arrogant and full of superior self-righteousness, as if Western women are here to save the poor and downtrodden Korean miscreants.
| kabrams wrote: |
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I'm sorry you hate men Picasso, but that's not my problem. |
How does she hate men, again? |
Calling me a cave man based on huge assumptions? Making statements that basically clump all the men on this thread together in a particularly negative light? Setting the agenda? Using the tired "you don't get it" line. That sounds like misandry to me.
| kabrams wrote: |
That way. I mean, we are all entitled to live life the way we live, but if you say you won't judge people, I don't understand why it has to be "this way" versus "that way" if we're truly being non-judgmental. . |
| kabrams wrote: |
It doesn't matter if the host, home or whatever country believes women should behave a certain way. Women are entitled to behave however they please, just like men. It always amazes me how quickly people are able to suspend women's rights/freedoms to do what they want because "that's just how it is".. |
Like I have stated. I don't care if women behave this way. I will not judge them, but I do care if I personally get in a relationship with one that behaves this way. I will lose interest in her if I find out she has been a party animal. However, this is predicated on a belief that she will continue along this way and want a relationship with me. Not a chance.
| kabrams wrote: |
I mean, seriously, women can't even smoke without getting slapped in the face/harassed? Women can't dance in a club without being labeled a *beep*? Women can't have casual sex without being compared to a male douchebag? |
Okay, I find this behavior just as offensive as you. I agree with you. |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| The Gipkik wrote: |
| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
Read her last sentence one more time and start over.
Anyway, we get it -- you prefer women who cave in to other people's opinions about them. Good luck with Korean women then, considering you're a foreigner, and dating a foreigner is not exactly the most 'done' thing by 'good' Korean women in Korean society either.
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First, this isn't a host country. It's a country. And if you don't like the customs that men and women observe here, barring outrageous human rights aberrations. Get out. And no you don't get it. You don't have a clue. Why make it personal? Did I say I say that this was my standard with Korean women? Did I say that I prefer women to cave in to other people's opinions? Have you actually been reading my threads? Because they will contradict this ridiculous observation. Hell no. Concerning smoking and promiscuous sex, this is my standard with ALL women, hot or not. If you smoke when I don't. If you like to screw guys indiscriminately every weekend then get out of my way. If you think this is cave man behavior, you are either ignorant or brainwashed. Hey go ahead and smoke and have loads of casual sex, I won't judge you as an individual because you have a right to behave that way, but not with me you don't.
I'm sorry you hate men Picasso, but that's not my problem. |
I don't hate men at all. I like men. A lot, actually. So much that a man like you would probably even classify me as a *beep*. Because you have the right to do that, even though you freak out when you feel like I'm implying that you're a caveman, when I actually said absolutely nothing of the sort, to begin with.
Not that you have any problems with women who have casual sex. As you said before, there's nothing innately wrong with it. Except that you want women who do it to "get out of [your] way".
The truth is, you don't know anything about the women you see drinking, smoking and doing whatever else with other men in clubs. You don't know what they do in the privacy of their own bedrooms, or who they do it with.
Anyway, you've got one thing right. Casual sex? Not with you I don't? For sure.... |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| The Gipkik wrote: |
Calling me a cave man based on huge assumptions? Making statements that basically clump all the men on this thread together in a particularly negative light? Setting the agenda? Using the tired "you don't get it" line. That sounds like misandry to me.
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I didn't call you anything, just to clarify. I disagreed with your opinion, and the way you stated it. Am I not allowed to do that? But you're allowed to make wild assumptions about who I am that, actually, completely contradict the premise of my stance to begin with? Just call me a lesbian and get it over with, man.
And I'm sorry, but if you think screaming "man hater!" is doing anything but proving my point about how SOME men on this forum come across as completely backwoods when they try to talk about gender issues, then you're sadly mistaken.
Also, if you were paying a little more attention, you would've thought twice before trying to claim that what enraged you was me lumping all men together, as I've made a comment in this very thread about how delightfully enlightened a lot of the fellows hanging around these days seem. Unfortunately, you're simply not included in that group at this particular moment, in my opinion.
As far as your comment about me making it sound like Western women are here to save Korean people, this is just another result of you not slowing down and reading properly. My point was that, if you prefer women who adhere to social standards for them, you've got yourself a catch 22 on your hands if you want to date a Korean woman, because dating you goes against the prevailing social standards in this country. How does that have anything to do with Western women or a value judgment on Korean culture? I'm just stating a fact....
Last edited by I'm no Picasso on Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Look, before this gets more catty, I would just like to clarify something for the guys who may not understand why some of the women are reacting they way they are to this thread.
You've taken a certain standard of behavior and separated it out as only pertaining to women. That was the premise of the beginning of this thread. Fine. Whatever.
Then everybody gets to give their opinions on the subject. Fine. Great. Wonderful.
But what you don't seem to realize is that, while you are giving your opinions about what is and is not acceptable to you in a female partner, the women are hearing (yet again) what is and is not acceptable for them in their personal choices in their lives as women.
So yeah, to go with Gipkik on this one (although I never said it before) and now say, you'll have to just accept the fact that there's something about that and how that feels for women that you won't ever understand.
It's great that you may hold yourself to the same high standards as you hold women in regards to your sex life. But you have that choice, without the rest of the world watching and condemning you if you make another. It's not the same thing.
Hopefully you can understand that you can't really understand, at least, and think twice before you make brash, sweeping statements about women being used up, skanky, outcast, easy, etc etc etc. |
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Triban
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: Suwon Station
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I think I'm a Gentleman on the streets, but a caveman in the bed? You dig? |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Piccasso and Gipkkik need to hug it out b*tch!
Piccasso, here's the thing and it's coming from me, a guy.
If us men are in bed with a woman who is very s*xually experienced and especially MORESO than us (unless she's like at least 15 years older and not seen as gf material, just a good time) - it makes us nervous and insecure. Its true. Especially if they're very frank or booastful about it... until we get older / more experienced ourselves
Who knows why that is? It's true though... But most of us get over it after we've known the person a while....
On a more aherm, detailed note...
Women who sleep with lots of guys do get literally, loose. you know, down there.... guys obviously find that unappealing.
On the flipside, guys who sleep around and get too much easy, meaningless s*x start to loose their enjoyment of it as much. Unless they're like S*x addicts or something. So that's not great either.
Hopefully everyone from both camps will both one day end up wth a loving partner they're nuts about.
In the end they're both as bad as each other, if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. This is not the 19th century anymore...
As long as Gipkkik holds himself to the same standards, then that's okay I guess.
Last edited by DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP on Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:58 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
But what you don't seem to realize is that, while you are giving your opinions about what is and is not acceptable to you in a female partner, the women are hearing (yet again) what is and is not acceptable for them in their personal choices in their lives as women.
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This is good Picasso. But let's remember, we choose to read these threads. We don't have to. This thread is a lot more civilized than many. As for the rest, let's agree to disagree, shall we? |
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