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Foreigners are stupid - inherent cultural thinking?
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kiwiboy_nz_99



Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My friend in Pusan is fluent in korean. We stayed at a restaurant one night, the owner said she disliked foreigners speaking Korean, and that she thought It was far nicer to meet someone who knows nothing much (me)....

I've found the opposite, Koreans tend to love it when I speak their language. It has got me special treatment in restaruants and shops, and a lot of help and good vibes in general.
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Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:50 am    Post subject: yes Reply with quote

Usually my korean speaking is met with friendliness or curiosity.

Occasionally it is met with hostility, as people find out they can't treat me like furniture.
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jaebea



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: SYD

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the posts in this thread, it seems proficiency with the Korean language amongst foreigners will draw one of two responses:

Either a favourable, positive response, or a regressive/agressive, negative response.

That's fair enough. It's much of what immigrants will experience in any other country. There have been people here who have posted on the record saying they feel uncomfortable when they meet Asian people who speak English fluently. Other people will be disappointed when immigrants don't speak English to a level they deem sufficient. It'll happen pretty much anywhere you go.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no apologist. If you're a Korean moron or an Australian moron, you're still a moron. But I think there is a definite perception of the Korean language amongst Korean people which isn't there within say, Australians and English. Whether that perception is positive or negative varies.

I talked to someone in Pusan who was very proud of the fact that Korean is the most technical/scientific language around. He took a bizarre satisfaction with the fact that my Korean was compartively poor compared to him, especially when it came to the southern dialect. I would speculate that he felt that his social position (he was a few years older than I was) was under threat, and he needed to assert his position by undermining my bilingual ability.

In comparison, some people I've met with Seoul are very pleased, and often amazed that I can speak Korean to the level that I do, considering my background. Their efforts to correct my Korean are welcome on my part and I enjoy my time with them immensely.

There's a bit of a bloody life story and a half. :)

Sorry.

jae.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
From the posts in this thread, it seems proficiency with the Korean language amongst foreigners will draw one of two responses:

Either a favourable, positive response, or a regressive/agressive, negative response.


And I think that both of these responses might just be two interpretations of the same phenomenon. When I drop a word of Korean into my lecture, I usually get "ooh very good" plus maybe some mild applause from the younger students. Not to mention smiles all around. I don't interpret this as meaning the students are impressed because they think that most westerners are too stupid to learn Korean, just that they are happy to see someone speaking their language. If the teacher is more inclined than I am to regard Koreans as racist and xenophobic, then of course he is going to have a more negative interpretation.
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jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find my students are pleased I know even a little Korean and can look up words in the dictionary and write them on the board. My Korean is pretty weak seeing I have been in Korea several years. But then the students also tell me how hard it is to understand the other foreign teacher who just arrived from the US a while ago, knows no Korean, and doesn't yet seem to grasp fully how little English they know, and how it is crucial to keep it slow and easy if you hope they might understand you. I think my first year teaching in Korea was harder because I knew no, or little, Korean, and didn't appreciate really how little English they understand.
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Butterfly



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: acting Reply with quote

kangnamdragon wrote:
TheMrCul wrote:
Quote:

I was upset today to see a KBS drama depict a Canadian female character as an utter buffoon who could not even say hello in Korean. Also, she was played by a Russian who had a terrible accent. Why can't they get a Canadian woman to play the Canadian woman?


It's just the same as the lead male "Japanese" guy in Snow Falling on Cedars is a Korean - no-one can tell!


No, my point was that people CAN tell. I could barely understand her English and she did not look like a Canadian woman.


Well maybe the Asian people watching Snow Falling on Cedars CAN tell too?
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TheMrCul



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Korea, finally...

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:51 pm    Post subject: can they tell? Reply with quote

kangnamdragon wrote:
Quote:
No, my point was that people CAN tell. I could barely understand her English and she did not look like a Canadian woman.


But most of the Koreans can't tell you see? Because quite a lot of them know little or no English at all, and just "accept" that this is a "Canadian" woman. Foreigners all look the same remember?
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TheMrCul



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Korea, finally...

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:54 pm    Post subject: CAN they tell? Reply with quote

Butterfly wrote:

Quote:
Well maybe the Asian people watching Snow Falling on Cedars CAN tell too?


Naaa. I've forgotten where but there is a website where you have to guess whether the person in the picture is Japanese, Korean or Chinese. The vast majority of people (asian or otherwise) can't tell just by looking.
Can you tell if a person is American/Canadian/British/Australian without them talking, just by looking?
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Corporal



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: CAN they tell? Reply with quote

TheMrCul wrote:
Butterfly wrote:

Quote:
Well maybe the Asian people watching Snow Falling on Cedars CAN tell too?


Naaa. I've forgotten where but there is a website where you have to guess whether the person in the picture is Japanese, Korean or Chinese. The vast majority of people (asian or otherwise) can't tell just by looking.
Can you tell if a person is American/Canadian/British/Australian without them talking, just by looking?


I agree. My husband can't tell that a Chinese or Japanese is not a Korean. He likes to be able to guess and get it right, but he often doesn't. In fact, I'm almost better at it than he is.
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Butterfly



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: CAN they tell? Reply with quote

TheMrCul wrote:
Butterfly wrote:

Quote:
Well maybe the Asian people watching Snow Falling on Cedars CAN tell too?


Naaa. I've forgotten where but there is a website where you have to guess whether the person in the picture is Japanese, Korean or Chinese. The vast majority of people (asian or otherwise) can't tell just by looking.
Can you tell if a person is American/Canadian/British/Australian without them talking, just by looking?



I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between American/Canadian/British/Australian, but I can usually tell the difference between Spanish/British/Italian/French for example. Asians probably cant, but a European can.

The same the other way around, the majorty of the time.

To them, we all look the same, to us, they all look the same.

The point being that in casting the Russian woman as a Canadian, they are only doing what we do commonly.

'Need a Korean actor for this scene'

'Sorry I've only got a Chinese guy on my books.'

'That'll do.'
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a little bit unfair just looking at a picture and being told to guess. Usually you can tell partly from the face, but also from their style and mannerisms, even before they open their mouth.
But if you see a girl cover her mouth while laughing or saying 'eeeeeeeeeeeeee?' that's a Japanese girl.
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matthewwoodford



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Location, location, location.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord wrote:
matthewwoodford wrote:
You're a racist if you believe any races are inherently superior or inferior to any other races. Get it? Have the decency to admit when you're wrong.


But there are differences in "the races" across a broad spectrum of aspects. Simply because a person accepts these facts does not qualify them as being a racist.

For example, by noting that blacks are taller and with a larger muscle mass on average and even had an extra muscle on their backs absent in other race groups does not make a person racist.


Yes or, as another example, noting that blacks have black skin and whites have white skin does not make one a racist. What's your point?

Are you going to start arguing that the KKK aren't racist now just like when you argued that the Japanese occupied Korea for Korea's own good Gord?

I like the 'extra muscle in the back' titbit. Just where do you dig this stuff up? Not that I'm going to contradict you because I know that's what you want. But what conclusion do you want people to draw from this?
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matthewwoodford



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Location, location, location.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Foreigners stupid Reply with quote

Gladiator wrote:
On the other hand wrote:
Quote:
Do you REALLY think Koreans believe that no one else can read hangul?


Yes, without hesitation. That is the propoganda K. society and education seems to perpetuate. A study/report I once saw (and sorry if I can't retrieve just now) commented even on how the majority of Korean teachers of Korean as a Foreign language have distressingly low expectations of foreigner's capability to communicate in the language.


Well guess why that is? Just from reading comments on this board it's fair to say that teachers of English as a foreign language also have low expectations of Koreans' ability to speak English. There is a huge language gap between Korean and English which is hard for anyone to bridge especially without more time and cross-cultural experience than is available to most. I hate to imagine what I must sound like to my Korean teachers, since I know just how moronic Korean students can often sound. I hate to think how kids in my school would have treated a Korean native language teacher had we been required to take Korean classes at 10 or 11 years old; probably a lot worse than Korean kids here.
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TheMrCul



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Korea, finally...

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:10 pm    Post subject: language Reply with quote

matthewwoodford wrote:

Quote:
Well guess why that is? Just from reading comments on this board it's fair to say that teachers of English as a foreign language also have low expectations of Koreans' ability to speak English. There is a huge language gap between Korean and English which is hard for anyone to bridge especially without more time and cross-cultural experience than is available to most. I hate to imagine what I must sound like to my Korean teachers, since I know just how moronic Korean students can often sound. I hate to think how kids in my school would have treated a Korean native language teacher had we been required to take Korean classes at 10 or 11 years old; probably a lot worse than Korean kids here.


Also remember that language isn't everybody's fort�. It might be okay in a few other languages to bumble your way through (languages that are closer to English in pronounciation, grammar etc) but in Korean-English it is not. So if language isn't your fort�, learning English from Korean or Korean from English will be a very long and tough road.
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matthewwoodford wrote:
Yes or, as another example, noting that blacks have black skin and whites have white skin does not make one a racist. What's your point?


My point being that saying we aren't all equal doesn't make a person a racist. Example: Because of my size (and being a walking combat machine), I can kick the asses about 99% of Asians in a vis a vis. This fact does not make me a racist. However, if I decided to start kicking the hell out of Asians simply because they were Asians, that would be a racist act.

That is the difference.

Quote:
Are you going to start arguing that the KKK aren't racist now just like when you argued that the Japanese occupied Korea for Korea's own good Gord?


The KKK were engaged in a racist act, being that they were killing blacks simply because they were black. That's different that observing a difference in race.

The only logical reason I can think of why you added in that part about my posts in another debate was because you were foreshadowing how I will use facts, links, and reason to soundly bring in the truth. Well, ok. You're right. Look at me go, bringing in the truth of enlightenment into your dark, dark world.

Quote:
I like the 'extra muscle in the back' titbit. Just where do you dig this stuff up? Not that I'm going to contradict you because I know that's what you want. But what conclusion do you want people to draw from this?


Where do I "dig this stuff up"? I read a lot. I ask questions. I continue to improve myself by learning more around me. I challenge what I believe to be true and find out why it's not.

Then I come across things like this:

Quote:
...the third head of the biceps is rare in whites and relatively high among blacks


http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0716-98682002000200014&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

What conclusion do I want people to draw from my opinion in this thread? Just that the mere observance of a difference between races does not equal racism.
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