|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:06 am Post subject: Sweden: Why are they rioting? |
 |
|
| Quote: |
Sweden: Why are they rioting?
In recent weeks, suburbs across Sweden experience almost nightly rioting (EN): young men go out, burn cars, throw stones at the police and fire department who show up. Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet provides a run down of these violence incidents, which started August 22 (SV).
The Swedish media is trying to understand why this is happening. Many articles ask "Why". In fact, to answer this question, the Swedes recently started up a research project, to find out why young men burn cars. Since answers will only be available in about three years, the Swedish media is continuing to investigate on their own.
Aftonbladet, for example, went out to interview the youth (SV). In Uppsala Aftonbladet meets with several young men who say they're upset at the police (EN) for beating them for now reason, and that the police set dogs on them. Mustafa (22) says that if he could he would have killed the dog handler.
Ahmed: We've had enough. we want to rebel. Retaliate.
Yosef (17): Now it's time for revenge. Now it's war. I know what I'm doing is wrong. But I do it for a reason. I throw stones and burn cars because I want revenge.
Aftonbladet says it's all because these young men have nothing in their future besides poverty and hopelessness. They've been hit by the financial crisis.
In a different part of town, a 15 year old interviewed by Upplandsnytt says that the youth have nothing to do (SV) and want revenge against the police for feeling harassed. It's not the smartest thing to do, but they're bored.
Police spokesperson Christer Nordstr�m says that the young people are dissatisfied with society and are targeting their resentment at the police.
According to Swedish broadcaster SVT, the police think that gangs are responsible (SV) for the violence, and that one riot leads young men elsewhere to imitate their behavior. Why do they riot? Because they want attention, and because they feel excluded by society.
The question still remains open as to why the rioting flared up just now. The media does bring up the question, but it doesn't really answer it. The poverty, exclusion, need for attention, all those were around a month ago.
Nobody mentions it, but the riots started at the same time as Ramadan. The first night of Ramadan, leftist activists showed up in Roseng�rd (Malm�) to protest police presence. They were supported by one local gang, but were run out of the neighborhood by an opposing gang and angry residents who said they wanted peace and quiet.
The next day, rioting flared up in Gothenburg. It might be that young men are especially bored in these times, and they might turn particularly sensitive to what they see as police harassment.
Ramadan is known to be a sensitive time. In Brussels, for example, the police officers say they've been told to keep a low profile during Ramadan (FR). Checking IDs can be seen as a provocation, and so they simply avoid it.
Swedish police are apparently not keeping a low profile, for now. |
From http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/09/sweden-why-are-they-rioting.html
Swedish msm links in the above link, in the event that you read Swedish.
So, why are they rioting? Ramadamadingdong? Has Sweden always had a car bbq on ramadan or is this new? If new, why? It's a pickle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Crockpot2001
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I can only comment as an casual observer but there is some serious stress there over immigration. I was in Sweden (Gothenbrg, Malmo, Lund, stockhlm) a few years ago. My friends all spoke in hushed tones over the great increases in immigrants from the middle east. Heck, I'd immigrate there. The "welcome" package is quite nice as rumored to provide an apartment and stipend in the beginning. But, for years they have tried mightyly to present themselves as largely free from racism and sexism but it seems to have come to a head. They just don't know how to address it while still appearing fair. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| [Deleted incorrect comment] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Crockpot2001 wrote: |
| They just don't know how to address it while still appearing fair. |
Exactly. Your experience is exactly the same as mine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sweden used to be a remarkably homogeneous place, full of boring Swedes eating pickled fish. Clearly, there was a need to make it more 'vibrant', more 'diverse' and more 'multicultural'. I can't help thinking they would have been better off if they had imported Portugese and Japanese, instead of Somalians and Moroccans. And still this madness is allowed to continue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
mises, what was your experience with Muslim immigration? I would love to know.
Last edited by RufusW on Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bigverne wrote: |
| Sweden used to be a remarkably homogeneous place, full of boring Swedes eating pickled fish. Clearly, there was a need to make it more 'vibrant', more 'diverse' and more 'multicultural'. I can't help thinking they would have been better off if they had imported Portugese and Japanese, instead of Somalians and Moroccans. And still this madness is allowed to continue. |
Multiculturalism and the cult of diversity will last until they die. And as very weak religions, they will die. Then what? I don't hold progressive assumptions but rather cyclical assumptions. If I'm correct, the leftists have done their diverse playthings a great disservice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
| as very weak religions, they will die. |
So they'll tend towards secularism? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
France:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100004139/why-are-the-french-trying-to-play-down-riot-reports/
| Quote: |
| Only the figures for the night of July 13-14 were published: �Some 500 vehicles� were burned, the worst ever recorded for the eve of the national holiday. Despite repeated requests to the Interior Ministry, and the DGPN [similar to the FBI], no figures were forthcoming for the night of July 14-15. These orders have been strictly applied. The different prefectures contacted by Le Monde refused to respond, citing �ministerial instructions.� Regional news media reported the same problem. The daily La Provence issued an unofficial report that was much less favorable than 2008: 41 cars and a day-care center in Marseilles burned. [�] |
UK:
http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/09/london-riots-at-anti-islam-protest.html
| Quote: |
| I didn't see a number for the anti-mosque protesters, but according to all news reports, there were hundreds of rioting Muslims. |
Belgium:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/islamic-youth-riot-in-brussels.html
| Quote: |
| Nine law enforcement officers were injured Thursday night in Molenbeek, a suburb of Brussels, when they clashed with Islamic Moroccan youth after trying to detain a youth who had provoked police surveilling the community during Ramadan. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Does anyone else get the impression that Islamic youth in Europe are more disaffected, more radical, and more militant than youth in actual Islamic countries? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Privateer wrote: |
| Does anyone else get the impression that Islamic youth in Europe are more disaffected, more radical, and more militant than youth in actual Islamic countries? |
That's because in their home countries, they get a lot more than tear gas and rubbet bullets when they start making problems. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think it has a lot more to do with the breakdown of the welfare state instead of people doing things because they're this color or that color. After all, there are riots throughout Europe and whites are doing much if not most of it. With whites rioting so much in Europe, I don't know why anyone would expect non-whites not to do the same.
When the welfare state breaks down in America, I think we'll see a lot of rioting here also. The rioting and the destruction here will probably be a lot worse. People here have no respect for property. Look at all of the grafitti in America and the fact that the majority of foreclosed homes end up looking like the ones in this video: http://housingdoom.com/2009/09/28/crack-of-doom-its-the-banks-fault-im-stripping-this-place/ Millions of people in America and Europe think we're entitled to this and entitled to that and over the next 5 to 10 years, as money continues to run out or lose its value, riots and destruction caused by those who are "entitled" to the fruits of other people's labor are going to be a growing problem. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Reggie wrote: |
| I think it has a lot more to do with the breakdown of the welfare state |
In Sweden? These 'youths' have everything necessary for life. Free food, shelter and money. Free!
When the Swedish welfare state does breakdown it will be third world immigration that caused it to fail. Swedes (etc) are not dumb. They'll know why their near-perfect society became decidedly more "American".
http://www.internationalfreepresssociety.org/2009/02/once-again-its-the-economy-stupid/
| Quote: |
Goodbye to the welfare state
In the process the Left has also undermined its signal creation, the modern welfare state.
In a remarkable report from 2008, Denmark�s National Bank (the equivalent of the Bank of England or the Federal Reserve) writes:
�A major part of the immigration into Denmark over the past 15-20 years, particularly at the beginning of the period, has come from less developed countries and has consisted of people with a low participation in the labor market causing a relatively large drag on public welfare expenditures. This has lead to a deterioration of the public finances, i.e. it has aggravated the problem of sustainability. |
| Quote: |
| because they're this color or that color |
That you immediately see colour is not because you're making a clear-headed examination of the issue. The American obsession with race doesn't apply in Europe. Sweden did not import hundreds of thousands of slaves and then go on to treat them like cattle for a couple-three hundred years. Sweden imported their underclass for other reasons. You can't take American obsessions and apply them to anywhere but America. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SeoulFinn
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Location: 1h from Seoul
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bigverne wrote: |
| Sweden used to be a remarkably homogeneous place, full of boring Swedes eating pickled fish. Clearly, there was a need to make it more 'vibrant', more 'diverse' and more 'multicultural'. I can't help thinking they would have been better off if they had imported Portugese and Japanese, instead of Somalians and Moroccans. And still this madness is allowed to continue. |
Why riot? My uneducated guess is that the rioters' respective parent cultures and set of values are vastly different than Sweden's, and these people don't really want to assimilate into the Swedish society. On the other hand, Asians (Vietnamese boat people, Chinese, etc.) are "model" immigrants and refugees.
There's a heated discussion going on in Finland about immigration and what's happening in Sweden and France. The law grants us freedom of expression, but those who criticize immigration/refugee policy or certain groups of immigrants/refugees are immediately labeled as racists.
I'm not against immigration or taking refugees. It is just that almost all of these wanna-be-refugees who sneak into our country and apply for refugee status are healthy young men (Somali, Afghan, Iraqi) who should be at home defending their families and definitely not hanging out with their homies at the metro and railway stations wearing expensive gansta gear.
I think that Finland should take those who really need help and asylum: orphans, girls and women, sick and disabled, people persecuted because of their religion, political opinions or sexual preference. If the people in power don't make the right decisions soon, no matter how hard they may be, Finland will have our own slums, riots and car BBQs in a decade or so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
| Does anyone else get the impression that Islamic youth in Europe are more disaffected, more radical, and more militant than youth in actual Islamic countries? |
That's because in their home countries, they get a lot more than tear gas and rubbet bullets when they start making problems. |
Yes. And in their home countries, they aren't provided with money, housing, etc by the state, so they're too busy trying to scrap by than riot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
