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Gopher · Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Regicide, as you well know, America cares very deeply fordemocratic elections.

The American system is based on them, at the federal, state, and local level, and it has functioned very well for over two hundred years -- even in the private sector where stockholders elect chairmen, PTAs elect officers, etc. The list goes on. And America maintains its closest relationships with others in world affairs, namely in the Atlantic community, who also care very deeply for democratic elections.

Try and try all you like. But your antiAmericanism -- your probing for negative examples to cast America in a purely dark light -- will never succeed in letting F. Castro off the hook for his actual and not merely rhetorical dictatorship and police state.

Summer Wine · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Next to a River

There was a documentary about Fidel Castro on television once and what I found most interesting was that the communists only made up one group of those fighting. There were others who belonged to the group or who had their own groups who worked in conjunction with Fidels.

They were then imprisoned and Fidel basically took over power. The moderates were forced out of the picture or made refugees. This was one piece of information that I never knew of before watching the documentary.

They interviewed a guy who had fought with Fidel, but then found himself imprisoned after they won. I guess you also have to ask why Fidel, never allowed a change of leadership and when one occured because he was sick, it went to his brother.

Russia and China chose new leaders, why has Fidel been so unwilling to allow anyone else to take up the reins of power. Is it a latin american issue? this love for strong men/ dictators?

Gopher · Joined: 04 Jun 2005

The fidelistas represented radical, activist Socialists, Summerwine. In addition to the anti-F. Batista democratic opposition forces, especially those fighting in the cities, this placed the fidelistas in opposition to even Cuba's pro-Moscow orthodox Communists.

Once Fidel assumed power and consolidated his hold, he rewrote the revolution's history so that it became a purely Socialist, rural guerrilla affair. "Twelve brave men bringing down the dictatorship from the mountains," etc. He placed all others in a subordinate role, or he deleted them from the revolution's history entirely. It was many things, including an internal power struggle among Latin America's far leftists, each faction dismissing the other. Call it Orwellian or totalitarian if you like.

This in any case became the predominant myth and at the same time it became Havana's preferred model for political change in Latin America. "Send twelve brave men into the mountains and you, too, can bring any dictatorship to its knees." Che Guevara broadcast it abroad in Guerrilla Warfare. And Havana advised and backed copycat, wannabe guerrilla organizations from Argentina and Bolivia to Central America based on these historically-inaccurate, faulty premises.

Then Che himself went to Bolivia. He not only failed to subordinate Bolivia's Communist Party hierarchy (they rejected him and his methods), but he failed to win the peasantry, who simply reported his band's position to local authorities who in turn notified Bolivian special forces who simply hunted him down and killed him.

On the other hand · Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue

Gopher · Joined: 04 Jun 2005

They talked the talk, On the Other Hand. "Solidarity," etc. And when they needed their European friends, from Paris to East Berlin, they could rely on them, especially when forced into exile. But I think F. Castro's alleged interventionism in Europe sounds unlikely, too.

He operated in the Third World, especially Latin America and subSaharan Africa, especially through the 1970s, and especially in Central America through the 1980s.

ontheway · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:47 am Post subject:

Gopher · Joined: 04 Jun 2005

What authorizes you to claim that?

And let me concede that he almost certainly employed Cuban intelligence there, for liaison and information-gathering, although I have never looked at it. I think what you mean is covert action, guerrillas, etc. I would like to know what informs you on this.

ontheway · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:07 am Post subject:

Gopher · Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Sounds like InSeoul2003's "I have it on solid authority" re: Israeli intelligence a year or two back.

Ontheway, when you assert "I do know from firsthand experience," are you claiming by subtle implication that you worked in intelligence and were stationed somewhere in Europe? Please elaborate on this "firsthand experience" with Cuban intelligence operations in Europe.

On the other hand · Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue

ontheway · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:47 am Post subject:

Gopher · Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Mosley · Joined: 15 Jan 2003

I've read a fair bit on Castro's regime. VERY little emerges on Cuba's DIRECT influence on European radical politics.

As others have noted, a very different story regarding Latin America & Africa.

Summer Wine · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Next to a River

Quote:

Once Fidel assumed power and consolidated his hold, he rewrote the revolution's history so that it became a purely Socialist, rural guerrilla affair. "Twelve brave men bringing down the dictatorship from the mountains," etc. He placed all others in a subordinate role, or he deleted them from the revolution's history entirely. It was many things, including an internal power struggle among Latin America's far leftists, each faction dismissing the other. Call it Orwellian or totalitarian if you like.

Thanks for that info Gopher.

You got to give it to Fidel, he sure marketed himself well.