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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
Kimbop,
Iranians are not Arabs. Ayn Rand is not a legitimate source of "anything". Get out of your "hood".
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Achmedinechad is a poop-head! And Ayn Rand is totally awesome!
Hippie!
| ddeubel wrote: |
I don't trust any "military" ruled nation with nukes. Iran / N.Korea / Isreal all fit that bill. Military men like to break a few eggs to make an omlette.
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Do you honestly think it wise to bunch Israel into the same group as Iran/N Korea? You've obviously never been there. Trust me: you don't want to see North Korea or iran. Isreal on the other hand is a bikini-beer paradise of falafel proportions.
Israel has had nukes for as long as forty years with no problems. Intelligent people aint' erfraid of a nuclear Isreal. Trust me: Isreal is a friend of the free world.
| ddeubel wrote: |
Whether or not Israel signed the non-proliferation agreement is a mute question. In all cases, Israel should as any civilized nation must - allow for inspection of nuclear facilities to ensure safety (that stuff travels, just ask the deaths in Egypt and the Sinai from the radioactivity). A nation is not an isolated entity when it comes to nuclear technology - whether that be for military or civilian purposes.
Sanctions should be placed on Israel just like Iran. No inspectors allowed in, sanctions.
DD
http://eflclassroom.com |
I agree--Isreal should allow the inspectors in. But if they don't---no big deal. Isreal is the most trustworthy country out of all ten of its neighbors. And forget the "radioactive dust" nonsense. Israel employs some of the smartest scientists on earth, and their country is the size of an acorn. They aint gonna poison their own people.
This is a big non-issue. Except for muslim apologists and progressive relativists. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:11 am Post subject: |
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From Kimbop's Ayn Rand link:
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| Those attacking Israel, by contrast, are terrorist organizations, dictatorships and theocracies, which deliberately violate the rights of their own subjects. Even if these organizations and regimes had never initiated force against Israel, they still would have no moral right to exist. |
Nothing more to add, really. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:39 am Post subject: |
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From Kimbop's Ayn Rand link:
Quote:
Those attacking Israel, by contrast, are terrorist organizations, dictatorships and theocracies, which deliberately violate the rights of their own subjects. Even if these organizations and regimes had never initiated force against Israel, they still would have no moral right to exist.
Nothing more to add, really. |
You guys need to head back to them hills for a good bonding session of homebrew and squealing around a fire. I'm sorry to say but the world (if you've traveled and yes, been to Israel several times, I'm a Jew yadda yadda...) is much more complex than your own 2 channel always playing "Deliverance".
I'm not trusting ANY player with nuclear weapons and all pretension that "this guy is more trusted than that guy" is mere sophistry and delusion. The main feature of "real politik" is that the trigger is controlled by very few and psychosis is much more apparent at the higher levels of government than anywhere else in the realm. (yes, read some Rexroth).
Israel is no more sane than Iran, in leadership, people or experience. To believe otherwise is blind obedience to something -- the tell tale signs of ignorance at its most naked comportment. Have you been to Israel and talked to so many of the "crazies"? You can't even have a sane conversation there, for the most part. Truly. I've seen the most erudite and educated become rabid at the mere talk of an Arab as "lucid". It really is pitiful.
Dream on in your allegiance to this or that. Patriotism (and that's all you got here) is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings.
Me, I'm in bed with neither and only wish to get the trigger finger cut off of both.
DD
http://eflclassroom.ning.com |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| much more complex than your own 2 channel always playing "Deliverance" |
You can't even get metaphors right.
What's the point in TWO channels always playing the same movie?
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| I'm not trusting ANY player with nuclear weapons and all pretension that "this guy is more trusted than that guy" is mere sophistry and delusion. |
No, it's cold hard reality.
The purpose of nuclear weapons is to deter attacks on national sovereignty. There isn't any evidence that Israel would consider using its nukes for any other purpose. Israel is, as such, a rightful, deserving member of the club. Iran - since there is evidence that it would consider using or threatening to use nukes offensively - cannot be said to be an equivalently deserving entity.
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| The main feature of "real politik" is that the trigger is controlled by very few and psychosis is much more apparent at the higher levels of government than anywhere else in the realm |
No, that isn't "the main feature" of realpolitik at all. If that is actually your view, then one can only presume you simply don't know what the terms "main feature" and "realpolitik" actually mean.
Even leaving that aside, your assertion is totally juvenile, lazy and no attempt to prove anything is made
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| (yes, read some Rexroth). |
Of what possible use could reading some poetry be here? If Rexroth has some relevant or profound point, then please state it, but otherwise if you think pulling the names of poets from betwixt your cheeks makes you sound clever, or will intimidate your opponent, by golly you are mistaken.
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| Israel is no more sane than Iran, in leadership, people or experience |
Without bothering to discuss whether that's actually a true claim, at least the Israeli government can be voted out.
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| To believe otherwise is blind obedience to something -- |
Yes - reason and evidence
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| the tell tale signs of ignorance at its most naked comportment |
You are painful
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| Have you been to Israel and talked to so many of the "crazies"? You can't even have a sane conversation there, for the most part. Truly. I've seen the most erudite and educated become rabid at the mere talk of an Arab as "lucid". It really is pitiful. |
You can't possibly expect someone to accept such feeble and downright nasty hearsay.
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| Patriotism (and that's all you got here) is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings. |
Meeting political, rational arguments with sentimental declamations and suggesting i read some poetry - that's all you got |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Israel is the most aggressive, genocidal, and basically evil nation state since Nazi Germany, and that's no exaggeration. It has no moral authority on anything. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| and that's no exaggeration. |
Yes, it is. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Sergio,
Keep talking to yourself.
There is a lot of evidence that Israel is aggressive and operates as a terrorist state. Kidnapping on foreign soil, assassinating, bombing foreign states, invading, selling arms, distributing arms illegally, imprisoning with impunity, breaking UN resolutions, war crimes against civilians, having a propaganda ministry, state sanctioned religious fanaticism (and use of religion and divine entitlement as a legal tool), torturing etc... This is my evidence.
Your attempt to put it in a "club" of high standing is just ridiculous. Looking at the evidence the past 60 or so years since Israel's founding - Iran looks like a white knight. But I won't put my money in with them either.....
Your whole line of some nations having "defacto" higher moral standing is delusional. That rhetoric is tired, worn out and empty.
I'd also like you to consider the notion of "register" when speaking about nations and how they talk about things. This should figure into any assessment and part of what I consider "real politik".
Sorry but Rexroth is not only a poet. You can google him again.
DD
http://eflclassroom.com |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Israel is the most aggressive, genocidal, and basically evil nation state since Nazi Germany, and that's no exaggeration. It has no moral authority on anything. |
Nice bit of hyperbole, but not actually true. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:00 pm Post subject: Palestine |
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I recall reading somewhere that Israel bombed a dam under construction on the upper Jordan River in Syria. Imagine South Korea doing that on the Imcheon River in North Korea!
No-one's answered the question I've posted twice previously. Do rational, impartial, people (this excludes many Israeli politicians) think it would be a good idea to create a separate Palestinian State? East Timor (a Catholic minority, surrounded by a Muslim majority) seems to be working just fine now, after 30 years of bloodshed & civil war. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Trevor wrote: |
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| I'm not siding with either. Both are as bad as each other. |
A lot of people fall into this trap. They think the most righteous thing to do is to blame both sides equally despite the barbaric disparity in hard numbers of casualties. |
It makes me think of the analogy of a rape victim scratching at the eyes of her violator, and then being condemned for it. If she wasn't being raped in the first place, there would be no need for her to resort to those tactics. And each scratch is held up as proof of her belligerence, when the wounds to her body are far greater than the scratches she occasionally lands on her rapist. |
That's a rather poor analogy since most rape victims don't attack the rapist first. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Isn't ElBaradei right? Israel is outside of the NPT regime, and thus is more dangerous than Iran. who is playing games within the NPT regime. Israel has nuclear weapons stockpiles and Iran does not. |
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cherrycoke
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Palestine |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
I recall reading somewhere that Israel bombed a dam under construction on the upper Jordan River in Syria. Imagine South Korea doing that on the Imcheon River in North Korea!
No-one's answered the question I've posted twice previously. Do rational, impartial, people (this excludes many Israeli politicians) think it would be a good idea to create a separate Palestinian State? East Timor (a Catholic minority, surrounded by a Muslim majority) seems to be working just fine now, after 30 years of bloodshed & civil war. |
This thread is about Israel being a threat to peace in the middle east. I'm not interested in changing the subject.
If you want to talk about how the Israeli government can stop bloodshed we can have a conversation. I can give suggestions like moving all the Jews to Canada or some other place in Europe. Africa or Asia. That would probably result in peace in a decrease in unnecessary human death and suffering. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| If you want to talk about how the Israeli government can stop bloodshed we can have a conversation. I can give suggestions like moving all the Jews to Canada or some other place in Europe. Africa or Asia. |
Just out of curiousity why would you do this? many Israelis are actually from the Middle East orginally.
Why do you think that they would be happier living in the places you mentioned?
Isn't thier Holiest site in the Middle East? I mean you might move them, but they would still have to visit there wouldn't they?
Why not move the palestinians to the countries you mentioned? There seems to be fewer of them than jews in that area?
just curious about your reasoning. |
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cherrycoke
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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At the risk of derailing this thread off-topic I will answer your question. It's a delusional/irrational move to want to stay or visit this desert location because of some superstitious belief. It's also dangerous from what I have seen. If I was an Israeli or Palestinian I would leave that place asap. I'm not here to debate whether an Israeli would be 'happier' by going somewhere else but rather i'd argue it's safer to go somewhere else.
Now let's get back to bashing the Israeli government for it's gross misconduct and crimes against humanity like the topics states. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Yea, let's.
Last edited by Trevor on Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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