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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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 Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: Farmers Gone Wild in Europe |
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Here's more of the entitlement mentality rearing its ugly head in Europe. In the photos, it looks like all are driving the so-called "Rolls Royce" tractors with the air conditioned cabs and one can only wonder how many of them have put all of their eggs in one basket by only dairy farming instead of diversifying. In any case, wasting tons of milk onto the streets to spoil and stink up Brussels while milk prices continue to fall isn't a very good way to show they're needed.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091005/ap_on_re_eu/eu_eu_milk_prices
Does anyone know if the chickens were dead or alive when they were thrown at the police?  |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| I feel bad for them. My father is a farmer and he went through the exact same thing back in the late 80s. NZ dropped all subsidies for industry. A lot of farmers lost their farms, but the NZ dairy industry is now one of the most efficient in the world. It sucks for that particular group of people, but the larger group of people will be better off. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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My mate is from Texas and his familly are in farming.
Same probs there and all around the world.
It's not merely due to a 'European Sense of Entitlement' Op, you idiot.
It's because the corporate a'holes such as Wallmart monopolise markets, corrupt their bedfellow polititians with 'special interests funding etc' to get the kind of market regualtions they like and thus can pay the poor farmer whatever they like for milk and poor farmer has to accept as there are not many other buyers.
It stinks and I support the farmers in the OP |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
My mate is from Texas and his familly are in farming.
Same probs there and all around the world.
It's not merely due to a 'European Sense of Entitlement' Op, you idiot.
It's because the corporate a'holes such as Wallmart monopolise markets, corrupt their bedfellow polititians with 'special interests funding etc' to get the kind of market regualtions they like and thus can pay the poor farmer whatever they like for milk and poor farmer has to accept as there are not many other buyers.
It stinks and I support the farmers in the OP |
There are heaps of buyers for milk. They are protesting falling prices but prices for dairy products have been at historical highs for the past 3 or 4 years. Their costs are twice that of the market price yet they receive massive subsidies from their govts. NZ and Aussie dairy farmers aren't protesting prices and they don't even receive subsidies. The farmers are just another special interest group. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| It's because the corporate a'holes such as Wallmart monopolise markets, corrupt their bedfellow polititians with 'special interests funding etc' to get the kind of market regualtions they like and thus can pay the poor farmer whatever they like for milk and poor farmer has to accept as there are not many other buyers. |
There's lots of buyers for milk. Even if we're just talking about straight up jugs of milk on the shelf in a store there are quite a few large supermarket chains, and tons of small ones. In addition to that, almost any business that creates food products is going to buy at least some milk products. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| It's because the corporate a'holes such as Wallmart monopolise markets, corrupt their bedfellow polititians with 'special interests funding etc' to get the kind of market regualtions they like and thus can pay the poor farmer whatever they like for milk and poor farmer has to accept as there are not many other buyers. |
There's lots of buyers for milk. Even if we're just talking about straight up jugs of milk on the shelf in a store there are quite a few large supermarket chains, and tons of small ones. In addition to that, almost any business that creates food products is going to buy at least some milk products. |
Right... Then why are farmers in the UK paid something stupid like two pence per pint of milk...? |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| It's because the corporate a'holes such as Wallmart monopolise markets, corrupt their bedfellow polititians with 'special interests funding etc' to get the kind of market regualtions they like and thus can pay the poor farmer whatever they like for milk and poor farmer has to accept as there are not many other buyers. |
There's lots of buyers for milk. Even if we're just talking about straight up jugs of milk on the shelf in a store there are quite a few large supermarket chains, and tons of small ones. In addition to that, almost any business that creates food products is going to buy at least some milk products. |
Right... Then why are farmers in the UK paid something stupid like two pence per pint of milk...? |
Why does the sun shine. Why is the ocean wet? What should milk cost? What about the consumer? Don't they have a right to cheap milk? Why are you complaining about something being cheap? There are plenty of dairy farmers in the rest of the world making a living, despite milk prices being low.
Did you notice how most of those farmers had brand new tractors? In the farming district that I am from you can tell the farmers that have been farming for a long time because they have 10-20 year old tractors. Those that come in and buy brand new equipment for top dollar hardly ever last more than 3 years. When they go bankrupt, the guys with the 10 year old tractors get a good deal on 3 year old one. |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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The problem is that a lot of the farms in Europe and even the states are just not economically viable without subsidies.
Average dairy herd size in Europe is only 25 cows, America it's 100 while NZ is over 250 head. And that's average so there are a lot of farms with less than 25. If you have to be paid to farm something beyond what the produce is worth, then you shouldn't be growing/producing it.
Sure getting rid of the subsidies and tariffs will hurt farmers in the short term, but in the long term it will lead to greater efficiency and the elimination of unsustainable farms (just look at korea) |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| blackjack wrote: |
The problem is that a lot of the farms in Europe and even the states are just not economically viable without subsidies.
Average dairy herd size in Europe is only 25 cows, America it's 100 while NZ is over 250 head. And that's average so there are a lot of farms with less than 25. If you have to be paid to farm something beyond what the produce is worth, then you shouldn't be growing/producing it.
Sure getting rid of the subsidies and tariffs will hurt farmers in the short term, but in the long term it will lead to greater efficiency and the elimination of unsustainable farms (just look at korea) |
I think having small farmers in rural communities benefits our respective societies that can't be measured in mere monetary terms.
For the record I do believe that the system of farm subsidies in Europe needs to be reformed but I don't think it should be done solely to remove so called less efficient farms. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| blade wrote: |
I think having small farmers in rural communities benefits our respective societies that can't be measured in mere monetary terms.
For the record I do believe that the system of farm subsidies in Europe needs to be reformed but I don't think it should be done solely to remove so called less efficient farms. |
That sounds very nice and reasonable. But, how do you measure it? Who gets to decide? And with whose money?
It would be nice if we still had blacksmith shops in the countryside. Or tanners, or shoemakers and if someone wants to set one of those things up as a tourist attraction, nice. But why should we take money off one guy and give it to another so that he can produce something that we can easily buy from someone down the road or, heaven forbid, from another country. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
That sounds very nice and reasonable. But, how do you measure it? |
No idea.
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Who gets to decide?
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Isn't this why we have elections?
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And with whose money? |
Taxation?
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It would be nice if we still had blacksmith shops in the countryside. |
We still do, they're now known as auto repair shops.
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| Or tanners, or shoemakers and if someone wants to set one of those things up as a tourist attraction, nice. |
Nobodies arguing that everything old should be preserved by government money but maybe perhaps somethings should be? Having massive industrialized farms is great if you want to produce a limited number of agricultural products for a small price but not so good if you care about having about not letting ourselves become dependent on limited number of types of crops and producers.
Another drawback to allowing rural communities to fail is that this in turn forces people to migrate to urban areas because of the lack of opportunities for employment or as in India's case a massive rise in suicides amongst it's farmer population.
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But why should we take money off one guy and give it to another so that he can produce something that we can easily buy from someone down the road or, heaven forbid, from another country. |
Food security. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| It's because the corporate a'holes such as Wallmart monopolise markets, corrupt their bedfellow polititians with 'special interests funding etc' to get the kind of market regualtions they like and thus can pay the poor farmer whatever they like for milk and poor farmer has to accept as there are not many other buyers. |
There's lots of buyers for milk. Even if we're just talking about straight up jugs of milk on the shelf in a store there are quite a few large supermarket chains, and tons of small ones. In addition to that, almost any business that creates food products is going to buy at least some milk products. |
Right... Then why are farmers in the UK paid something stupid like two pence per pint of milk...? |
Because milk isn't really worth that much. It's a consumable that often serves as only a part of other products. If farmers were paid more for their milk, everything that requires milk to make would increase in cost.
How much do you think they should get paid per pint, and why? |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
My mate is from Texas and his familly are in farming.
Same probs there and all around the world.
It's not merely due to a 'European Sense of Entitlement' Op, you idiot.
It's because the corporate a'holes such as Wallmart monopolise markets, corrupt their bedfellow polititians with 'special interests funding etc' to get the kind of market regualtions they like and thus can pay the poor farmer whatever they like for milk and poor farmer has to accept as there are not many other buyers.
It stinks and I support the farmers in the OP |
Of course price collapses happen around the world, but that's what happens when the supply outpaces the demand.
For example, I plant my corn early, and do varieties that mature early, when most people are afraid of frost killing it and causing them to do the work over again and forcing them to buy more seed at $10.50/lb. It didn't frost this year and for a few weeks, I was able to make $500 a day, even on Sunday, since the demand was high and I was one of the few suppliers. Fast forward a month or so and the market was being bombarded with truckload after truckload of corn. I had been gradually dropping my price to stay competitive and had gone from $3/dozen to $0.50/dozen and eventually there just weren't any buyers at any price. I had two choices:
a) Give what I couldn't sell to old ladies in the community to can, take some to food charities for a tax write off, give the rest to a hog farmer, then go home and stake tomatoes, fertilize the eggplants, dig the potatoes, pick the beans, peppers and okra and other crops to sell, and just be glad there wasn't a famine and that everyone had plenty to eat.
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b) Take my truckload of corn that nobody wanted to buy to town hall and throw a temper tantrum, dump the corn in the road, throw ears of corn at the sheriff's deputies and mayor, and proclaim I should be paid a lot of money for the corn at the expense of consumers who pay cash and taxpayers who fund the food stamp program.
Nobody owed me money for the corn. It was my fault for growing more than I could sell and actually contributing to the market saturation/price collapse of corn. Besides, I didn't have time to protest. I barely had enough time to farm and defend my porn viewing from Joo Rip and Mises in the USS Liberty thread. If I was going to protest about anything, it would've been the law they passed about strippers having to be three feet away from customers during lap dances. Now that is an injustice and travesty! 
When the farmers in Europe are able to dump tons of milk into the streets without prices going up, all it does is demonstrate the oversupply. Notice that they weren't taking off their wedding bands and throwing those at the cops, since gold is rare and worth something. You don't get an ounce of gold each time you squeeze a boob like you can with milk. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
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The farmers are absolutely pathetic. They're owed a living. And they will use violent coercion in order to get it.
If you're not earning enough in your current job, get on your bike and look for another. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
The farmers are absolutely pathetic. They're owed a living. And they will use violent coercion in order to get it.
If you're not earning enough in your current job, get on your bike and look for another. |
True that. They're actually luckier than most people falling on hard times in this global economic downturn. Since they're farmers, they still have plenty to eat and drink, while so many in this world starve to death when they can't make enough money at their jobs. They really need to look at their glass of milk as half-full instead of half-empty instead of crying over spilt milk. |
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