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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Using the children for any political purose is wrong, I agree. CNN is pushing an agenda by using the children, they know it and it's unfortunate. Then again, I don't watch CNN and I don't take anything they have to say seriously. CNN is like a one handed man clapping.
Yes, using the children is wrong. For example, this is really despicable stuff. |
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Troutslayer
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Using the children for any political purose is wrong, I agree. CNN is pushing an agenda by using the children, they know it and it's unfortunate. Then again, I don't watch CNN and I don't take anything they have to say seriously. CNN is like a one handed man clapping.
Yes, using the children is wrong. For example, this is really despicable stuff. |
Christ......that IS despicable.
1984...here we come.
slayer of trout |
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cutiepie354
Joined: 26 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| no kidding |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Troutslayer wrote: |
| CNN (or ANY news agency, for that matter) should not be USING children to broadcast their own political and ideological agenda(s). It is wrong. |
Okay. But, again, I argue health care reform is a human welfare matter rather than a political matter, and children being involved in the promotion of human welfare matters is perfectly acceptable.
Everyone in our nation having access to quality health care in a fashion that won't land them in such severe debt that they lose everything they own is something that should be beyond politics. The Republican Party, the Insurance Industry, and Democrat sell-outs may have drug it down into the mud of politics, but at its core, it's an issue that's about ensuring our citizens get what they need. |
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Troutslayer
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Okay. But, again, I argue health care reform is a human welfare matter rather than a political matter, and children being involved in the promotion of human welfare matters is perfectly acceptable.
Everyone in our nation having access to quality health care in a fashion that won't land them in such severe debt that they lose everything they own is something that should be beyond politics. The Republican Party, the Insurance Industry, and Democrat sell-outs may have drug it down into the mud of politics, but at its core, it's an issue that's about ensuring our citizens get what they need. |
Well, I agree with you to a point. But.............is CNN a non profit organization? Is it a neutral entity without a political agenda, focusing its concerns on only the needs of people and children in the world, such as "Feed the Children"?
slayer of trout |
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Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| To support what Fox (the eslcafe forum member, not the right wing smear factory) is getting at, I would be opposed to the children/health care promotion thing if they were being primed to support a particular version of health care legislation over other versions. The fact that many mainstream Democrats have already rejected health care plans proposed recently suggests to me that the children won't have an irrational hate for anyone else who decides to oppose *particular examples* of health care legislation. Even Obama is cool with leaving out the public option, so the only thing these kids might be biased against as a result of this "indoctrination" would be people who actively oppose making health care accessible, which would be both against the socialist extreme of providing such services entirely through taxes and the capitalist extreme of maintaining an economic environment where private services will become cheap and plentiful enough for everyone to qualify for and afford them. I don't think many people are arguing "we don't think it would be best for our society as a whole if everyone had access to health care." |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
| Once you demand the government become involved, it becomes a matter of politics. Those who are serious about serving humanity re: healthcare would build clinics and hospitals. They would voluntarily ask for donations and for help in their cause. They might even solicit a few MDs and PAs to help them in their peaceful endeavors. However, in order to serve humanity, they would never coerce or otherwise threaten violence in such an effort. |
Yes, all government is predicated on violence. Wonderful work. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| Pluto wrote: |
| Once you demand the government become involved, it becomes a matter of politics. Those who are serious about serving humanity re: healthcare would build clinics and hospitals. They would voluntarily ask for donations and for help in their cause. They might even solicit a few MDs and PAs to help them in their peaceful endeavors. However, in order to serve humanity, they would never coerce or otherwise threaten violence in such an effort. |
Yes, all government is predicated on violence. Wonderful work. |
Give it 5 minutes thought, and you will realise this is true. What happens if you don't pay your taxes? You will be thrown in prison. What is more violent than prison? |
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Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| Pluto wrote: |
| Once you demand the government become involved, it becomes a matter of politics. Those who are serious about serving humanity re: healthcare would build clinics and hospitals. They would voluntarily ask for donations and for help in their cause. They might even solicit a few MDs and PAs to help them in their peaceful endeavors. However, in order to serve humanity, they would never coerce or otherwise threaten violence in such an effort. |
Yes, all government is predicated on violence. Wonderful work. |
Give it 5 minutes thought, and you will realise this is true. What happens if you don't pay your taxes? You will be thrown in prison. What is more violent than prison? |
I actually agree that government does depend on violence/coercion, but I would argue that very few people wouldn't support some form of violence/coercion in a government (with the libertarians, this means limiting violence/coercion to what is necessary to protect the life, liberty, and property rights of others).
And I'm kind of nitpicking here, but you can't be thrown in prison for not paying taxes in the US and if I remember correctly, under no circumstances can you be imprisoned for not paying taxes in Canada (which incidentally is a more socialized nation than the US-- although I encourage someone to double check whether Canada doesn't actually imprison tax evaders). You can be thrown in prison for tax fraud in the US, and more rarely, for not filing your taxes, although with the latter case the IRS usually doesn't punish you beyond charging you money so long as it seems like you were unable to easily afford it at the time.
Lastly, I'd be all for not paying taxes so long as people were to keep to themselves and self-subsist. I'm a fan of the Unabomber's manifesto (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Industrial_Society_and_Its_Future), despite how much the guy hammered on the point that "leftists" would ruin his cause. I'd describe myself as a leftist so long as we have any sort of society, but an anarcho-primitivist in terms of what I think would be ideal. The main problem I have with anarcho-primitivism would be the lack of easy euthanasia available in the absence of scientifically advanced medical care. If everyone had a gun (there are plenty of diseases/injuries/old age conditions which simply aren't tolerable for the majority of sane unmedicated human beings, which probably was a huge driving force behind the advancement of science and government in the first place-- original point being that the option to control the end of your life would solve that problem) with no other forms of technology and just kept to themselves and lived off of the land, then that would be the perfect living situation in my mind, up until some people would get greedy and start working together, inventing stuff, imposing a community on everyone else, and trying to bank on their future achievements by reinventing the perpetual debt system of "money." But yeah, in the real world I believe a capitalist system supported by public utilities (police, education, medical care, bare minimum financial support accessible to anyone who can establish that they've exhausted private options or are in the process of doing so, etc.) is the most moral and effective route to take. I might try to self-subsist some day though, if I can find the right place for it. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Troutslayer wrote: |
| Quote: |
Okay. But, again, I argue health care reform is a human welfare matter rather than a political matter, and children being involved in the promotion of human welfare matters is perfectly acceptable.
Everyone in our nation having access to quality health care in a fashion that won't land them in such severe debt that they lose everything they own is something that should be beyond politics. The Republican Party, the Insurance Industry, and Democrat sell-outs may have drug it down into the mud of politics, but at its core, it's an issue that's about ensuring our citizens get what they need. |
Well, I agree with you to a point. But.............is CNN a non profit organization? |
It's not a non-profit organization, and it obviously has at least some measure of political bias in general. I don't think that automatically makes every individual thing it does politically biased, though. It just admits to the fact that overall, its reporting style leans towards the Liberal. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| Pluto wrote: |
| Once you demand the government become involved, it becomes a matter of politics. Those who are serious about serving humanity re: healthcare would build clinics and hospitals. They would voluntarily ask for donations and for help in their cause. They might even solicit a few MDs and PAs to help them in their peaceful endeavors. However, in order to serve humanity, they would never coerce or otherwise threaten violence in such an effort. |
Yes, all government is predicated on violence. Wonderful work. |
Give it 5 minutes thought, and you will realise this is true. What happens if you don't pay your taxes? You will be thrown in prison. What is more violent than prison? |
A world without governments. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| Pluto wrote: |
| Once you demand the government become involved, it becomes a matter of politics. Those who are serious about serving humanity re: healthcare would build clinics and hospitals. They would voluntarily ask for donations and for help in their cause. They might even solicit a few MDs and PAs to help them in their peaceful endeavors. However, in order to serve humanity, they would never coerce or otherwise threaten violence in such an effort. |
Yes, all government is predicated on violence. Wonderful work. |
Give it 5 minutes thought, and you will realise this is true. What happens if you don't pay your taxes? You will be thrown in prison. What is more violent than prison? |
A world without governments. |
Agreed. What is your point? I've told you before what I consider to be the bare minimum level of govt. Some things are so obvious, that they shouldn't need explaining, though. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| Pluto wrote: |
| Once you demand the government become involved, it becomes a matter of politics. Those who are serious about serving humanity re: healthcare would build clinics and hospitals. They would voluntarily ask for donations and for help in their cause. They might even solicit a few MDs and PAs to help them in their peaceful endeavors. However, in order to serve humanity, they would never coerce or otherwise threaten violence in such an effort. |
Yes, all government is predicated on violence. Wonderful work. |
Give it 5 minutes thought, and you will realise this is true. What happens if you don't pay your taxes? You will be thrown in prison. What is more violent than prison? |
A world without governments. |
Agreed. What is your point? |
You asked a question. I answered it. That's all. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| Pluto wrote: |
| Once you demand the government become involved, it becomes a matter of politics. Those who are serious about serving humanity re: healthcare would build clinics and hospitals. They would voluntarily ask for donations and for help in their cause. They might even solicit a few MDs and PAs to help them in their peaceful endeavors. However, in order to serve humanity, they would never coerce or otherwise threaten violence in such an effort. |
Yes, all government is predicated on violence. Wonderful work. |
Give it 5 minutes thought, and you will realise this is true. What happens if you don't pay your taxes? You will be thrown in prison. What is more violent than prison? |
A world without governments. |
Agreed. What is your point? |
You asked a question. I answered it. That's all. |
How was your answer relevant? You could have said 'Planet of the Apes', it would have made as much sense. |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Old Gil wrote: |
| Pluto wrote: |
| Once you demand the government become involved, it becomes a matter of politics. Those who are serious about serving humanity re: healthcare would build clinics and hospitals. They would voluntarily ask for donations and for help in their cause. They might even solicit a few MDs and PAs to help them in their peaceful endeavors. However, in order to serve humanity, they would never coerce or otherwise threaten violence in such an effort. |
Yes, all government is predicated on violence. Wonderful work. |
Give it 5 minutes thought, and you will realise this is true. What happens if you don't pay your taxes? You will be thrown in prison. What is more violent than prison? |
Getting mauled by a bear? |
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