Korean Job Discussion Forums

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

Aruing about what is "major" and what is simply a violation is pedantic and useless. The United Nations INTERNATIONAL COVENANT ON ECONOMIC, SOCIAL AND CULTURAL RIGHTS is quite clear on what constitutes a human rights violation. They either occur or they don't, and according to the Korea International Labour Foundation they occur here.

[Homer]

Kiwi,

That was written with foreign workers in mind.
It hardly applies to teachers as it concerns the asian workers coming to Korea being forced to work in sub-par conditions.
No one is denying thats a human rights abuse.

[Gwangjuboy]

[Homer]

G-boy...

Its over...let it go man.

I will not recognize that some foreign teachers getting ducted out of some pay are being abused on a human rights level. Why? They were flown over here, given free housing and can pretty much go back to their home nations and find a decent job there.
I reserve my sympathy and the human righst abuse charge to employers who hire workers from third world nations and then cheat them out of everything. These people have no options. We do.
The convention you put as a link does say that being cheated out of your wages is a human rights abuse. But that does not mean there are not degrees.

If you are so convinced of your position then I suggest you round up some wae guks who have been cheated out of some of their wages and head up to the UN's Human Rights commission and make your case.
That should be quite entertaining.

You want to see it all on the same level and call it human rights abuses.
Thats your reading of it.

We have differing views.

You remain outraged and I will keep on looking at things my way.

Have a good one.


Debate over.[/u]

[humanuspneumos]

The 2nd world/3rd world argument: they have nothing to go back to and so it's serious.

Well, I haven't only met one or two folk who borrowed money from their family or friend to get to Korea (not all schools pay in advance the ticket) on good faith that their ticket would be paid for and then discover that they were hired to fill in for a teacher's vacation and so after a few weeks fired- left with nothing in their pockets except tears.

I haven't met only one or two folk who gambled on the basis of a promise and lost all- these folk I feared for- truly thought- would end up on the street back home (welfare in some countries is cut if you cut your residency/residence). They made a desperate gamble and ended-up worse off than before.

So- no- livelihood is a huge issue. It used to be you touch a man's horse you were looking at hanging by the neck. We need to remember that there are pockets of almost 3rd world conditions in Western nations (some university students aren't strangers to food banks) and those who were barely on their feet before they came (getting knocked down again) well- it's a serious human rights issue.

Penniless is penniless.

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Gwangjuboy]

[Gwangjuboy]

[Homer]

G-boy,

Your going a bit far now. If you want to call me names and insult me personnally thats not cool. It just proves one thing: you can't debate in an adult fashion.

If you could you would just accept that I have my views and that you have yours.
This does not make me a lesser person then you or "spineless".
At the very least I respect people I talk with and meet. You on the other hand switched on the trailer trash lingo in no time, heck it looks like its second nature to you.

I read your "evidence" and I made a personal reading from it. Laws exist but only a complete moron would think they only have one interpretation.
Anyway, like I said its over....if you wish to continue insulting me like some snotty nose elementary schoolyard bum go for it.
Knock yourself out if it makes you feel bigger or superior.

March on little man...march on...they are waiting for you at the UN, a resolution will be passed and troops will be sent in to protect your human rights....


There are degrees, there are differences. But thats my view (getting sick of repeating this). You see it all as thogether..thats fine, thats your view.
No problem.

My view: teachers come here on a schools coin (usually), get free housing and a decent pay (or they should). If they are then cheated out of some of their pay, they have legal recourse (labor board). Arguably this recourse is often useless.
Then they can very easily change jobs here or simply move on with very little hurt to themselves. They were not threatened with torture, stavation or any other serious thing. They can pick up and leave at will with very little consequences on themselves. Thats not excatly a human rights problem in my view.
In opposition, a philipino worker here has no rights and no outs. He is here for survival. Often this includes his family. This in my view is a clear human rights abuse and is worth fighting for.
A westerner coming from the richerst part of the world teaching a language thats in demand everywhere is not in the same boat at all.
The law on human rights includes this teacher, in theory, but its mostly meant to protect the person with less means to protect himself.
The hakwon industry has problems, some directors cheat their teachers. No argument there. Is that a major human righst violation? Not in my opinion.
If it is in yours (and kiwiboy) then thats fine I accept that. Can you be mature enough to accept that others may have different opinions then yourself and that these opinions are just as valid as yours?
It looks like thats not the case you steel spined, steely eyed warrior of human rigts warrior you...
I can see it clear, G-boy standing in front of a concentration camp filled with hakwon owners "You want human rights...I'll give youuuuuu human rightsss..."

In the end Urbanmyth made a similar point then me about us foreign teachers. There are degrees my man...its not black and white.

Oh and before I forget, for all your talking kiwiboy, you are just as eager to sink to low ball insults when you see your diatribes do not crush your opponents into submission or agreement. Way to show class.

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

I don't think it rises to the level of a human rights violation, but the Korean government is anti foreigner.


Which is ironic because it owes everything to foreigners.


Compare its laws and policies to those in Japan and Taiwan, two countires with similar population density. And Taiwan arguably has a much bigger security problem.

I respect Koreans - I wish more of them were in the United States- but I have nothing good to say about the Korean government.

[Vince]

Immigration in my country needs to be vastly overhauled and tightened, but antics in Korea have little to with it. All the reasons for immigration reform exist within our borders.

The only Korean immigration thing that offends me is Korean women flying to the US just to have their baby in the US and get citizenship and education for it. That's clearly an abuse of our system, and it's our fault for leaving ourselves open to it. Congress needs to review that, pass a law that will eliminate it, and revoke the citizenship of Koreans and anyone else who was born in the US under those circumstances.

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

[Gwangjuboy]