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makemehavefun
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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 Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| Also, how often do you think a complete and utter beginner such as myself should study / practice / go to classes or whatever per week? I am pretty fit and healthy and do yoga. |
Just don't let a week go by without at least one day or night of training. For every Muay Thai gym I've trained at, it's more or less 2-3 hours of training; sometimes more if you're so inclined. When you start learning combos, you'll find yourself practicing/rehearsing when you find the spare time... 'shadow boxing' until it becomes second nature. Eventually, you'll be tempted to get a heavy bag to practice with at home. So, training doesn't necessarily stop or have to be confined to the gym. In fact, every single instructor I've had gave us 'homework' for our off days. MT is a whole lot of fun despite the pain and sweat.
I don't know how they're doing it SK regarding MT training but every one I've gone to had me sparring---"fighting"---right from the get-go. So, be prepared for that. Getting up there between the ropes for the first time is a real eye-opener... You are going to be sparring pretty regularly and keep in mind that most people just don't know how to spar. It invariably turns into a full-on fight. 
Also, be ready to cope and deal with just plain getting hurt. Punch a heavy bag incorrectly and you'll have trouble sleeping for a week or so because you f'd up your wrist.
Be careful tho'... really, after 3-4 solid months of training(3 or more times a week), you won't be too apprehensive about taking on anyone of any size should any "conflicts" find you. You still gotta be 'smart'  |
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Bog Roll
Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Location: JongnoGuru country. RIP mate.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| As. Maybe that's why no-one has ever invaded Thailand - because they know they'd get their arse kicked! |
Japan, Burma and Vietnam would all be surprised to hear that. Particularly the first two as they not only invaded Thailand, they conquered it. |
Urban Myth showing us all that he gained his history lessons from the back of a weetabix packet!
Burma was under British rule, Vietnam was under French rule and Japan was not only invaded by the United States but they dropped two great big bombs on them to pave the way to Tokyo...  |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Bog Roll wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| As. Maybe that's why no-one has ever invaded Thailand - because they know they'd get their arse kicked! |
Japan, Burma and Vietnam would all be surprised to hear that. Particularly the first two as they not only invaded Thailand, they conquered it. |
Urban Myth showing us all that he gained his history lessons from the back of a weetabix packet!
Burma was under British rule, Vietnam was under French rule and Japan was not only invaded by the United States but they dropped two great big bombs on them to pave the way to Tokyo... |
I don't know about Burma, but Japan did not conquer Thailand. Thailand was an ally of Japan and part of the Axis powers. |
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anjinsan
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Redaxe wrote:
"I'm no "Korea apologizer" myself, but the idea that all the Korean martial arts were imported from Japan is HIGHLY controversial and not well demonstrated, and the statement "Korea has no traditional fighting arts" is patently false."
Please explain how it is "highly controversial." Any KMA with "-do"
is from Japan friend (except "Hwarangdo" which was made up by some dude a few decades ago).
This concept of "-do" is straight from Japan guy.
Ain't saying it to bash Korea, just saying thems is the facts.
I never said "all" KMAs are from Japan as well--please read a bit closer next time. In terms of traditional Korean fighting arts (besides those I listed), can you think of any others that have a long,intact tradition
not pieced together in the post-WWII era from old pictures/paintings or from old tomb murals or statues? Any traditional fighting arts known to most Koreans on the street like this? Sure, all people fight and have fought throughout history, and something gets systematized along the way; but anything come to mind with such a long (meaning longer than Korea's modern era [post-war]) tradition? If so, inform us please
Redaxe also wrote:
"Korea did not just copy all their martial arts from Japan, it's just not that simple--China, Korea, and Japan all influenced each others' martial arts styles, and they all developed alongside each other in different ways throughout history. A lot of them have similar names and similar techniques, but a few pretty important differences."
Please explain how KMA's influenced JMA and Chinese MAs.
I'd love to hear your answer. As an example, how did TKD influence karate, particularly in the latter's Okinawa days? How about HKD influencing aikijujutsu? How about any KMA influencing Kung fu? I'd love to hear your answer guy.
Redaxe also wrote:
"By the way, it's pretty easy to claim that all things Korean are "a traditional Japanese product with a few minor alterations then given the 'Made in Korea' label" when the Japanese colonized Korea and literally BANNED the Koreans from practicing any of their own cultural activities or even speaking their own language, and forced them to assimilate to Japanese culture."
You might want to check your dates here, esp. with the K language ban. Might be more than a little inaccurate in terms of your statement
of Japans cultural assimilation program which went heavilyinto effect in the final decade of their rule. I have a few books I recommend you read on the subject.
Again, I'd love for you to explain how TKD is not of Japanese origin, along with HKD, Yudo, Komdo, etc.
Another guy wrote:
"Koreans should be proud of their martial tradition."
Yup! I couldn't agree with you more . . . Korean's should be proud of their own martial traditions--not those of other countries. How about archery for starters?
Another guy also wrote:
"Thank those informed few who mentioned the actual historical origins of MA in china korea and japan as being a collaboration over hundreds of years."
Yup, they were a "collaboration"--let's take karate as our example: a traditional Okinawan MA with origins in Tang China, taken to the Japanese mainland by Funakoshi, then taught in uni circles and eventually to Japanese troops as well as to the originators of the TKD style as they served in the J. army, esp. during the WWII years. Some even called it "Korean Karate" (I have an old book right here from those days with the title on the cover in bright green letters) or, by its pre-Funakoshi title of "Tang Su Do" (Okinawan "kara"--Tang China; "te" hand; later to be changed to "kara"-empty; "te" hand--both translated into Sino-Korean as "Tang Su" with the "Do" suffix)
Speaking the truth--which may not seem to glorify Korea is not Korea-bashing people. Are you all that brainwashed? Gotta say good things about kimchi or you are an enemy of the Korean people? Gimme a break!
Stay here for about ten years; learn the language in and out; get married to a local girl and have kids here; go to school here or read 20 or 30 books on this place and its traditions; be involved with KMAs for 5 or 10 years; then come back and say a few things worthy of consideration.
Last edited by anjinsan on Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ryoga013
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| redaxe wrote: |
They are pretty proud of Taekwondo and Yudo--just watch the Olympic coverage in Korea next year!
But outside of the Olympics, those sports/martial arts are basically for kids. It's like little league.
Also, are you REALLY complaining that Koreans are not proud ENOUGH of something in their culture??  |
Judo is Japanese, but other than that I agree with you. Taekwondo is the yoga of martial arts. Many people gain power from it only from the flexibility gained through its practice, but alone? bleh.
It's a good thing when Koreans aren't super proud of something they call theirs, simply because its theirs.
To answer the OP's question? It's because they've forgotten all about their history... the history of Robo-Taekwon-V
http://roberthood.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/taekwon_v.jpg |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| anjinsan wrote: |
Yup, they were a "collaboration"--let's take karate as our example: a traditional Okinawan MA with origins in Tang China, taken to the Japanese mainland by Funakoshi, then taught in uni circles and eventually to Japanese troops as well as to the originators of the TKD style as they served in the J. army, esp. during the WWII years. Some even called it "Korean Karate" (I have an old book right here from those days with the title on the cover in bright green letters) or, by its pre-Funakoshi title of "Tang Su Do" (Okinawan "kara"--Tang China; "te" hand; later to be changed to "kara"-empty; "te" hand--both translated into Sino-Korean as "Tang Su" with the "Do" suffix)
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TKD may be based on a Japanese MA but it is now a korean MA. Almost everything is from somewhere else originally. TKD as it is in it's current form is Korean.
Hapkido was based on a Japanese MA but is now a korean MA.
yudo, well yudo is judo and is a MA but the koreans are kick arse at it.
Sure some people deny that they are based off Japanese MA, some even deny that they are even influenced by the japanese, but they are in the minority. My hapkido master fully acknowledges the Japanese influence, and laughs at those that don't.
I don't see you someone can't be proud of something their country created, even though they simply modified it. |
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Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| blackjack wrote: |
| Bryan wrote: |
1. Most Koreans seem to know that TKD is a joke. I trained with professional MMA fighters in Korea and none of them did TKD. Many came from grappling and boxing backgrounds though. At Choi Mu Bae's gym, many of the guys were high level wrestlers, whether greco or freestyle.
2. Judo is respected in Korea but it did not originate in Korea therefore there is no nationalist pride about it.
3. There's a lot of respect from adults who compete for Muay Thai and boxing, as far as striking goes. Korean fans watch K-1 and know that those are what you have to learn. |
TKD should be seen as a sport. It has a number of rules in place to prevent it from causing too much damage. It should not be viewed as self defense. Is rugby or gridiron a joke?, how about wrestling (not WWE or whatever, I mean Olympic)?
When you start getting into the higher dans you learn the techniques which can be used for self defense / attack and can possibly hurt / kill people.
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I agree, it's an Olympic sport. That's true. However, most trained Koreans think it is a joke against other sports. At least all the wrestlers and Judo guys seemed to think so, and they're sportsmen.
| Quote: |
| If you want to become a big badarse fighting machine don't take a sport |
If you want to become an unarmed fighter, I think a lot of sports would be good to take, including wrestling and Muay Thai.
| Quote: |
| TKD, Hapkido, Judo are not really much use in a street fight but they are a great way of staying in shape, having fun and toughening up a bit. However they all have rules in place to prevent the competitors from getting too badly hurt. |
I disagree with you about Judo. Judo has an alive training environment against fully resisting opponents, one of the things that makes combat sports effective. All the other effective combat sports like BJJ, Muay Thai, wrestling, boxing, and sambo all have the critical component of aliveness--fully resisting an opponent at full speed and strength. |
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shinramyun
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ryoga013 wrote: |
| redaxe wrote: |
They are pretty proud of Taekwondo and Yudo--just watch the Olympic coverage in Korea next year!
But outside of the Olympics, those sports/martial arts are basically for kids. It's like little league.
Also, are you REALLY complaining that Koreans are not proud ENOUGH of something in their culture?? |
Judo is Japanese, but other than that I agree with you. Taekwondo is the yoga of martial arts. Many people gain power from it only from the flexibility gained through its practice, but alone? bleh.
It's a good thing when Koreans aren't super proud of something they call theirs, simply because its theirs.
To answer the OP's question? It's because they've forgotten all about their history... the history of Robo-Taekwon-V
http://roberthood.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/taekwon_v.jpg |
And japanese martial arts are pretty much influenced by chinese martial arts. Japanese people shouldn't be proud of their martial arts because of that reason because it's based on another country's ma?
Your logic sucks. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| Bog Roll wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| As. Maybe that's why no-one has ever invaded Thailand - because they know they'd get their arse kicked! |
Japan, Burma and Vietnam would all be surprised to hear that. Particularly the first two as they not only invaded Thailand, they conquered it. |
Urban Myth showing us all that he gained his history lessons from the back of a weetabix packet!
Burma was under British rule, Vietnam was under French rule and Japan was not only invaded by the United States but they dropped two great big bombs on them to pave the way to Tokyo... |
I don't know about Burma, but Japan did not conquer Thailand. Thailand was an ally of Japan and part of the Axis powers. |
Myth is so wrong about Thailand's history on this one, I really can't even be bothered to reply. It will go way off topic also.... |
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fusionbarnone
Joined: 31 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| xingyiman wrote: |
| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
I want to Learn Muay Thai it seems really badarse with the whole 8 limbs thing and the cool moves. Maybe that's why no-one has ever invaded Thailand - because they know they'd get their arse kicked! |
Actually, very few Thais know anything about Muay Thai other than what they watch on TV. Although it is the national sport, it is also considered a "poor man's sport" and most aspiring Thai men don't really want to be associated with it in anything other than a spectator's perspective. I trained in Muay Thai when I lived in Bangkok and there were only two Thai's training - two high school girls, the rest were foreigners.
To the poster who said that Takgeyon is not really a martial art but a festival dance, well....I studied Takgeyon for two years and honestly including all the martial arts I've studied (Karate, TKD, Shaolin Kung Fu, Judo, GJJ, Hapkido, Muay Thai) in my 40 years, I would rate Takgeyon as one of the most effectivet and brutal. Like any other martial art it's not entirely complete but it is more akin to the Chinese martial arts in style and form than it's Japanese influenced counterparts (TKD, Hapkido, etc..) Your opinion sort of reflects the common Korean's opinion if you ask them so I'll assume thats probably where you got it from. Most of them will tell you that Tagkeyon is just a dance but most Koreans don't have a clue about it because they've studied TKD all their lives. |
I saw the Taggyon championships on TV and it was scary with the close proximity and the shear speed(foot to head kick almost standing toe-to-toe. The unlucky recipients of those kicks left the ground literally. You gotta have guts to get into that one. |
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mua'dib
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Location: sweating pure pocari
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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hey anjinsan
boldboldbold boldy bold bold
I wasn't trying to offend you and your vast credentials and experience. the information/questions I brought up are worthy of consideration. You have clearly considered such things or you wouldn't have had such a self-effacing response. You come off very immature for such a warrior scholar.
If you really want to get down to brass tacks, no martial arts are original. period.
Yes Koreans should be proud of there archery, but they didn't invent the bow and arrow any more than I invented yanking the crank.
It must just make your blood boil!
love,
brainwashed newb
Last edited by mua'dib on Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| fusionbarnone wrote: |
| xingyiman wrote: |
| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
I want to Learn Muay Thai it seems really badarse with the whole 8 limbs thing and the cool moves. Maybe that's why no-one has ever invaded Thailand - because they know they'd get their arse kicked! |
Actually, very few Thais know anything about Muay Thai other than what they watch on TV. Although it is the national sport, it is also considered a "poor man's sport" and most aspiring Thai men don't really want to be associated with it in anything other than a spectator's perspective. I trained in Muay Thai when I lived in Bangkok and there were only two Thai's training - two high school girls, the rest were foreigners.
To the poster who said that Takgeyon is not really a martial art but a festival dance, well....I studied Takgeyon for two years and honestly including all the martial arts I've studied (Karate, TKD, Shaolin Kung Fu, Judo, GJJ, Hapkido, Muay Thai) in my 40 years, I would rate Takgeyon as one of the most effectivet and brutal. Like any other martial art it's not entirely complete but it is more akin to the Chinese martial arts in style and form than it's Japanese influenced counterparts (TKD, Hapkido, etc..) Your opinion sort of reflects the common Korean's opinion if you ask them so I'll assume thats probably where you got it from. Most of them will tell you that Tagkeyon is just a dance but most Koreans don't have a clue about it because they've studied TKD all their lives. |
I saw the Taggyon championships on TV and it was scary with the close proximity and the shear speed(foot to head kick almost standing toe-to-toe. The unlucky recipients of those kicks left the ground literally. You gotta have guts to get into that one. |
Yeah Takgeyon really shines in close quarter fighting. There are spectacular kicks to be sure, but most of the kicks are medium to close range. As well most close quarter kicks are done in conjunction with trapping. Before I studied Takgeyon, I was of the opinion that in a real fight high kicks had no effectiveness. That changed quickly after sparring with my instructor and his students.
Whatever martial art you study, one will gain valuable experience, even the much maligned TKD. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Bog Roll wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| As. Maybe that's why no-one has ever invaded Thailand - because they know they'd get their arse kicked! |
Japan, Burma and Vietnam would all be surprised to hear that. Particularly the first two as they not only invaded Thailand, they conquered it. |
Urban Myth showing us all that he gained his history lessons from the back of a weetabix packet!
Burma was under British rule, Vietnam was under French rule and Japan was not only invaded by the United States but they dropped two great big bombs on them to pave the way to Tokyo... |
I wasn't talking about the period of the world wars... |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| Bog Roll wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| As. Maybe that's why no-one has ever invaded Thailand - because they know they'd get their arse kicked! |
Japan, Burma and Vietnam would all be surprised to hear that. Particularly the first two as they not only invaded Thailand, they conquered it. |
Urban Myth showing us all that he gained his history lessons from the back of a weetabix packet!
Burma was under British rule, Vietnam was under French rule and Japan was not only invaded by the United States but they dropped two great big bombs on them to pave the way to Tokyo... |
I don't know about Burma, but Japan did not conquer Thailand. Thailand was an ally of Japan and part of the Axis powers. |
Once again, I wasn't solely referring to WWII. But if it comes to that, in the latter years of the war Thailand was treated increasingly as a conquered territory rather than an ally by Japan. Now if you want to argue over semantics, have at it. Speaking of which Japan still felt it was necessary to invade it.
http://www.cpamedia.com/history/thailand_in_shan_state/
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:50 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| Bog Roll wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
| As. Maybe that's why no-one has ever invaded Thailand - because they know they'd get their arse kicked! |
Japan, Burma and Vietnam would all be surprised to hear that. Particularly the first two as they not only invaded Thailand, they conquered it. |
Urban Myth showing us all that he gained his history lessons from the back of a weetabix packet!
Burma was under British rule, Vietnam was under French rule and Japan was not only invaded by the United States but they dropped two great big bombs on them to pave the way to Tokyo... |
I don't know about Burma, but Japan did not conquer Thailand. Thailand was an ally of Japan and part of the Axis powers. |
Myth is so wrong about Thailand's history on this one, I really can't even be bothered to reply. It will go way off topic also.... |
Thailand was conquered by Burma in 1767 (although it was later overthrown), Vietnam had several battles/invasions with Thailand back then as well. Japan occupied Thailand and increasingly treated it as an occupied territory rather than an ally. All this info can be found on Google with a five minute search.
I suggest reading history books...it may save you from embarrassment later on.
This whole thing started when you said Thailand had never been invaded. I simply proved you wrong. |
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