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Can they be taught?

 
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Olivencia



Joined: 08 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:13 am    Post subject: Can they be taught? Reply with quote

How would you go about teaching under these conditions:
1. 30 students per calss.
2. The students ages range from 7 to 12. So your class of 7 year olds are 30 students, 8 year olds are 30 students, etc etc
3. No reading or writing is to be taught...all classes have to be listening and speaking. No books for the classes.
4. Most of the students have a difficult time saying, "My name is..." and "What's your name"?
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andrewchon



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man if that isn't an ideal class condition for TPR.

Total Physical Response is what you can do. Work with your co-teacher on this. One speaks and other is demonstration dummy. Easy things, stand up, go the desk, etc. Then get the students to be the demo-dummy. When students are ready to speak, let them be the controller of the dummy. When your students have improved, they can go to TPR with story telling.
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Olivencia



Joined: 08 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok thank you
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winterfall



Joined: 21 May 2009

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your lucky. I've got hs kids who are at that level. Same language focus, different activities for the last 6 weeks. Zero improvement. Same mistakes with the SAME SENTENCES.
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RufusW



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's basically Elementary PS without the useless books.

You need to concentrate on actions / images. Relate all language to one of the two, and if possible, both. So when I taught "How are you?" there's an action for each one and a smiley face for each one. Also, pointing to themselves when they say 'I', thumbs up for 'like', pointing to another person when they say 'you'.

Get the students to produce their own cards (simple drawings, 1/16th of A4). Very simple games. One kid on the table says "I like....." (thumbs up) the other kids have to grab the card from the table. If your games are good enough they'll regulate themselves and won't even think about the language after the first 5 minutes. Memory games, there's lots of cards face down, they have to pick two matching food cards etc.. The majority of their time 25/40m should be them doing such an activity.

Although you're not teaching writing, maybe they should have a record book regardless. My students will write down the key questions/answers so they can refer back. Maybe your students can have a reference book of images (but I don't see any harm in writing language down, at least the top 20% will be able to use it later).

Use body language and the same commands in every class (listen, be quiet, practice, ready? let's go!)
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D.D.



Joined: 29 May 2008

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Show a very short youtube video, or just stop the video on a clip with many things in the pic. Next step even though you said no writing is each kid has a pen and paper. Then they make a circle and use it to write the things they see in the video or pic.

At first they might not write very much so you ask them to say out loud the things they saw and as they say them you write them in a mind map on the board. Then the kids copy down the words.

Level 1. is writing and speaking things.
level 2. is writing a mind map to describe the things in the pic or they can do a mind map for actions.
Level 3. is starting to write basic sentences.

level 1. dog
level 2. white dog , big , long ears, ect

or running, chasing, looking


level 3 . The dog is big. The dog has long ears. The dog is running.


After some weeks many kids will be stuck in level 1 so they just keep doing that.

Level 2 kids work level 1 and 2.

level 3 kids work all levels.

Each class you start out basic and work towards sentences ( level 3)


This gives you feedback on where each student is and different kids can work at their own pace.

Very important that co-teacher and you move around the class helping them write and speak the words.


Also they must generate the words and then you share the words around. This keeps you from boggling them with new vocab. They need to practice talking with basic words that they practice using.

pm me if this appeals to you or if it's too confusing.
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mua'dib



Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Location: sweating pure pocari

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can't pm until I have 25 posts....

D.D. I would like some additional info. I feel like my kids are on the verge of being able to make sentences without too much help... but I'm still a little confused

thanks!
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D.D.



Joined: 29 May 2008

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's easy they list the things in the video.

Then they describe the things, or list the actions.

Next they make sentences.

and read out their answers and you ask questions.
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Morning_Star



Joined: 21 Jan 2009

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:54 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

First you need to build the student's confidence in speaking English. Do this by making powerpoints with very simple pictures and asking them what it is, make simple sentences etc. Then build "trust" with the students by having small class discussions, just ask a general question every chance you get. Eventually they will warm up to you.

Second, play lots of games.
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RufusW



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But you've got to supply the language before they can use it. Asking them questions some students can't answer will probably make them retreat.

If I asked my 3rd or 4th graders to describe a video or photo they'd have a lot of difficulty. It sounds like a good process to learn English, but it's gonna be slow and require a huge amount of repetition. If one picture illicits - fast, ears, black and dog, you've got a lot of different concepts there: ones that the kids will find difficult to comprehend simply by copying. You also have the problem with younger kids having to read/write when they probably can't.

I prefer: Teach the vocab (Q&As) - get them to use it to complete a task (games etc) - hope (!) some of it sticks
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lifeinkorea



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told something similar, but what they really meant was not to have writing or reading as the main part of the lesson. They are hiring us because we are native speakers, not native writers.

As long as you keep this in mind, it should be ok to have them write sometimes but spend most of class speaking and listening. That listening part seems to be ignored.
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Fishead soup



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

google EFL Ning and download the game Baam. Or contact dduebels on this site You will need a laptop that connects with a school TV monitor internet not needed.

link http://eflclassroom.com

this site is awesome.
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D.D.



Joined: 29 May 2008

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RufusW wrote:
But you've got to supply the language before they can use it. Asking them questions some students can't answer will probably make them retreat.

If I asked my 3rd or 4th graders to describe a video or photo they'd have a lot of difficulty. It sounds like a good process to learn English, but it's gonna be slow and require a huge amount of repetition. If one picture illicits - fast, ears, black and dog, you've got a lot of different concepts there: ones that the kids will find difficult to comprehend simply by copying. You also have the problem with younger kids having to read/write when they probably can't.

I prefer: Teach the vocab (Q&As) - get them to use it to complete a task (games etc) - hope (!) some of it sticks



I started this program with elementary school grades 1 and 2 kids. The mind maps, writing and talking. The kids have a lot more words inside them than you think. A university prof came to my class and was angry to watch the kids struggling to write ( first 10 minutes). Then she saw them yelling out lots of words even if they couldn't write them down. I then write those words on the board and they copy them. After 3 days she said her kid was talking more than she ever believed he would in such a short time.

The main focus of the lesson is talking. If you don't teach writing and basic sentence formation how will they think in English? You need to give people a program to run a language before you start filling them with data.

This concept that English teaching is giving them vocab is crazy. They need a system for processing the data first.

So teach them when they look at a movie or a pic, or something in real life to quickly see and think about the names of the things they see. That's what we do so they need to learn it.

They need a very basic operating system in their brain for English.

I live near a university and have a 7-11 in my buiding with university students working part time. I talk to them and see where they are weak in speaking after many years of Korean English education. I then work backwards to the start and say what did they need at this age. I take a zen approach in that complicated things need simple solutions.

Talk to many Korean university students and you will see that they can't speak basic ideas or in sentences. Also ask your middle school students to write a basic sentence and you will soon see where the stumbling block is.

So write from the beginning make them do a little writing and tie it in with speaking and listening. It is very simple.
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RufusW



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D.D. wrote:
This concept that English teaching is giving them vocab is crazy. They need a system for processing the data first.

So teach them when they look at a movie or a pic, or something in real life to quickly see and think about the names of the things they see. That's what we do so they need to learn it.


I don't understand, you are giving them vocab. It may be via a mind map and in the form of "the [noun] is...." but to be able to describe something they have to have the vocab.

I see the process is useful, using new language to describe, but how do the kids who don't supply language to the mind-map internalise the new language? Simply by writing and repetition? How many new words would you write down? What retention rate would you expect?
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