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staticdelusion
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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 Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I feel like Obama is into the idea of peace, which is pretty cool |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| staticdelusion wrote: |
| I feel like Obama is into the idea of peace, which is pretty cool |
The idea of peace? As in, in his rhetoric and campaign speeches? Sure, why not? Talk is cheap. What about reality?
The president, once inaugurated, certainly did hit the ground running re: peace, no?
And where does he stand today? Oh yes, here it is...
| Quote: |
| ...on Tuesday, Obama made it clear that he is not entertaining the idea of withdrawing American troops from Afghanistan or reducing their numbers, nor does he want to narrow the scope of the effort to simply ferreting out Al Qaeda and its allies. |
I find the Messiah complex and all its manifestations perplexing, to say the least. Open your eyes, Obamabots. Stop chanting and celebrating "historic firsts" and look around you.
I support and do not oppose the president's foreign relations, including his handling of the ongoing wars. But I am not exactly falling all over myself to award him the Nobel Peace Prize, if you know what I mean... |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| phoenixstorm wrote: |
| Wow I love how some folks have gone all Kanye West on Obama. Lay off the haterade. Some nobel peace prize winners have actually been awarded the prize for what they stand for and represent or for the potetial and promise that they show. |
You know you're on the losing side of the argument when you call the opposing team haters rather than offer reasons or support for your arguments. Mith, here, also displayed the same tactic as you, but with a bit more eloquence. |
Kind of. Mine's more just an observation that Obama wins a lot, and often wins when it would definitely be considered to be too early for just about anyone else. Plus, the Nobel Peace Prize is almost always controversial given its very nature; it always ends up stepping on someone's toes. Back in 1936 Hitler called it a "misuse of a humanitarian institution for partisan political purposes", which is pretty much the same thing that someone ends up saying every year every time it gets awarded. It was especially interesting back then since it was awarded just a few months after the Olympics in Berlin and WWII was still a ways off. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent.
So those of us who question the committee's thinking here are not merely Nazi-like, but also following the F�hrer himself? New low, Mithridates. You and your blogger-source.
You were saying something about "eloquence," Kuros? |
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zipper
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Location: Ruben Carter was falsely accused
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't love Obama, but I hope that he can achieve what is expected of him. Perhaps the Nobel will encourage him to pursue the expectations of what the prize was given to him in the first place for. So far, I think that he is doing a better job on getting something done to get most Americans on a health care plan, but Afghanistan? |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Excellent.
So those of us who question the committee's thinking here are not merely Nazi-like, but also following the F�hrer himself? |
Eh, no. Hitler was also nominated for the same prize in 1939, you see. Not everything to do with Hitler has to be extrapolated into the present. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The real losers in this situation are all the Conservatives showing their true pettiness by whining about this. It just gives them another chance to showcase their ridiculous childishness, and they're taking full advantage of it. American Conservatives are totally lacking in dignity at this point. While Obama gracefully admits he doesn't deserve the award (and he doesn't, but who cares? Nobel Prizes are a trivial convention.), our Conservatives bitch, whine, and moan. Par for the course. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| The real losers in this situation are all the Conservatives showing their true pettiness by whining about this. It just gives them another chance to showcase their ridiculous childishness, and they're taking full advantage of it. American Conservatives are totally lacking in dignity at this point. While Obama gracefully admits he doesn't deserve the award (and he doesn't, but who cares? Nobel Prizes are a trivial convention.), our Conservatives bitch, whine, and moan. Par for the course. |
So you agree that Obama doesn't deserve the award, then? Very good. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| The real losers in this situation are all the Conservatives showing their true pettiness by whining about this. It just gives them another chance to showcase their ridiculous childishness, and they're taking full advantage of it. American Conservatives are totally lacking in dignity at this point. While Obama gracefully admits he doesn't deserve the award (and he doesn't, but who cares? Nobel Prizes are a trivial convention.), our Conservatives bitch, whine, and moan. Par for the course. |
So you agree that Obama doesn't deserve the award, then? Very good. |
I do agree he doesn't deserve it. I believe Obama also agrees he doesn't.
In retrospect, given that my post was made in response to the people saying this would be a political loss for Obama, I probably should have quoted someone. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| The real losers in this situation are all the Conservatives showing their true pettiness by whining about this. It just gives them another chance to showcase their ridiculous childishness, and they're taking full advantage of it. American Conservatives are totally lacking in dignity at this point. While Obama gracefully admits he doesn't deserve the award (and he doesn't, but who cares? Nobel Prizes are a trivial convention.), our Conservatives bitch, whine, and moan. Par for the course. |
So you agree that Obama doesn't deserve the award, then? Very good. |
I do agree he doesn't deserve it. I believe Obama also agrees he doesn't.
In retrospect, given that my post was made in response to the people saying this would be a political loss for Obama, I probably should have quoted someone. |
A lot of agreement here.
Obama didn't deserve it. He knows it, too. He probably regrets getting this so early in his term, more than anyone else objects. If he'd had the chance to turn it down secretly, he probably would have. But, to turn it down publically would be worse than accepting it with dignity and humility. It will hurt him politically, but if conservatives attack him too much over this it will hurt them as well.
This horse will soon be dead. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| phoenixstorm wrote: |
| Wow I love how some folks have gone all Kanye West on Obama. Lay off the haterade. Some nobel peace prize winners have actually been awarded the prize for what they stand for and represent or for the potetial and promise that they show. |
You know you're on the losing side of the argument when you call the opposing team haters rather than offer reasons or support for your arguments. Mith, here, also displayed the same tactic as you, but with a bit more eloquence. |
Kind of. Mine's more just an observation that Obama wins a lot, and often wins when it would definitely be considered to be too early for just about anyone else. Plus, the Nobel Peace Prize is almost always controversial given its very nature; it always ends up stepping on someone's toes. Back in 1936 Hitler called it a "misuse of a humanitarian institution for partisan political purposes", which is pretty much the same thing that someone ends up saying every year every time it gets awarded. It was especially interesting back then since it was awarded just a few months after the Olympics in Berlin and WWII was still a ways off. |
It is apples and oranges though. In the example you provided, it isn't like there was wide spread shock and disbelief that Ossietzky won the prize. The German gov't was naturally upset, but that is it. I'm sure that type of response happens frequently. A repressive regime would naturally have that type of response if a dissident won the Nobel Peace Price.
In short, what makes this different is the people shocked and dismayed aren't some authoritarian gov't, but citizens from the country that produced (and embraced as opposed to repressed) the winner. Now if you can find another example of THAT, then I'll be impressed  . |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| phoenixstorm wrote: |
| Wow I love how some folks have gone all Kanye West on Obama. Lay off the haterade. Some nobel peace prize winners have actually been awarded the prize for what they stand for and represent or for the potetial and promise that they show. |
You know you're on the losing side of the argument when you call the opposing team haters rather than offer reasons or support for your arguments. Mith, here, also displayed the same tactic as you, but with a bit more eloquence. |
Kind of. Mine's more just an observation that Obama wins a lot, and often wins when it would definitely be considered to be too early for just about anyone else. Plus, the Nobel Peace Prize is almost always controversial given its very nature; it always ends up stepping on someone's toes. Back in 1936 Hitler called it a "misuse of a humanitarian institution for partisan political purposes", which is pretty much the same thing that someone ends up saying every year every time it gets awarded. It was especially interesting back then since it was awarded just a few months after the Olympics in Berlin and WWII was still a ways off. |
It is apples and oranges though. In the example you provided, it isn't like there was wide spread shock and disbelief that Ossietzky won the prize. The German gov't was naturally upset, but that is it. |
No, not just that. From the first article:
| Quote: |
The award was interpreted widely as likely to be regarded by nazi Germany as a direct affront, as a frank criticism of its policies.
This was believed to be responsible for the recent decision of Halvdan Koht, Norwegian foreign minister, and Johann Mowinckel, former Norwegian premier and foreign minister, to resign from the Nobel peace committee. |
Remember, this was an awarding of the prize well before WWII started, and just after the Olympics. You're right though that it's of a different nature - it would probably be comparable to awarding the award to someone like Kasparov or someone else opposed to a country the rest of the world doesn't want to tick off. |
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mua'dib
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Location: sweating pure pocari
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
| mua'dib wrote: |
| time magazine is people magazine for people who (think they) can read |
Seconded.
Also, cool name mua'dib. I was a big Dune fan myself. |
I love you internet validation! I love you Dune! I think I have an electronic stiffy!
Yes yes, it turns out those lovely folks at the Nobel committee did in fact award him the peace prize for the promise of future effectiveness in ending nuclear arms proliferation..... But again I am skeptical. Looks like this is just some more high level politic-ing made to strengthen Obama's in his cause(s). Now if he could just get started on the whole restructuring of our entire military thing and gay marriage and the wait, what am I saying?
Go Obama, go! do whatever they'll let you get away with! maybe then we'll see some results. BTW, love your speeches dude!
Side note: the real conservatives back home really hate all of that fox news BS as much as any of us. it hurts their cause more than it helps. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mua'dib wrote: |
Side note: the real conservatives back home really hate all of that fox news BS as much as any of us. it hurts their cause more than it helps. |
Who are these real Conservatives are you talking about? Also, by what standard do you disqualify people who enjoy Fox News as "false Conservatives?" |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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