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Mandatory Swine Flu Vaccine?
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L50XR97Jt2E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnaiubVJv8E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktcoJW6mj1U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5E2N4pliXs&feature=related
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D.D.



Joined: 29 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ED209 wrote:
I know, but too many people are repeating these unproven fears over vaccinations. It's in the media, on the net and even friends having children have expressed the same fears. Yet when you look at the claims and at the evidence it doesn't support the anti-vaccinationists. This is the West's 'fan death'. Your analogy with conspiracy theorists also hits the mark pretty well.


Your argument shows a facination and belief in the science model. For anyone who is smart and spends years in the sciences this model is known to have so many holes in it. People who talk like you are just talking from beliefs like some church person. The rare church person or scientist is speaking from experience. I can you tell you talk from belief in a model.
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ED209



Joined: 17 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D.D. wrote:

Your argument shows a facination and belief in the science model. For anyone who is smart and spends years in the sciences this model is known to have so many holes in it. People who talk like you are just talking from beliefs like some church person. The rare church person or scientist is speaking from experience. I can you tell you talk from belief in a model.


So far you have offered nothing to suggest I should change my mind about science based medicine. If you spend years in the sciences you should know that scientific claims such as you have made about vaccines require evidence. I'm fully aware that science doesn't offer all the answers. As far as medicine goes do you know a different model that we can trust?

Lends end the hijack for now;

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2200301#2200301
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Some of the Mothers Said



Joined: 01 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Your argument shows a facination and belief in the science model. For anyone who is smart and spends years in the sciences this model is known to have so many holes in it. People who talk like you are just talking from beliefs like some church person. The rare church person or scientist is speaking from experience. I can you tell you talk from belief in a model.


Now I know who you are D.D!
Admit it!
You're Ben Stein from the movie Expelled. Only you're pretending to be a biological, "real" chiropractic, art, ESL (I assume) teacher in Korea to out all those slightly skeptic, predominantly fact based people working here. Are you working for the Korean Times? I bet they've put you up to this Benny!

You know there's a creationist museum in the states that's right up your ally. You'd love it! Saddles on Dinosaurs, a recreation of the building of Noah's ark, and there's even a dinosaur in the garden of eden! WOW! Who needs facts! Check it out!
http://creationmuseum.org/
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D.D. wrote:


Again studies show that those diseaes were on their way out..



Links to these studies that show polio and smallpox would have been on their way out regardless of the vaccine?
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one's for Polio:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17037363/The-Polio-Vaccine-A-Critical-Assessment-of-Its-Arcane-History-Efficacy-and-Longterm-Health-Related-Consequences
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OculisOrbis



Joined: 17 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

some waygug-in wrote:
This one's for Polio:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17037363/The-Polio-Vaccine-A-Critical-Assessment-of-Its-Arcane-History-Efficacy-and-Longterm-Health-Related-Consequences


most definitely, that was printed in quite the esteemed, unbiased publication, yes siree, very objective studies, no doubt.......... Rolling Eyes

http://www.medicalveritas.com/

http://www.medicalveritas.com/vaccineveritas.htm

.....and here's the rebuttals for the anti-vaccinationists:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?cat=36

......a quote from someone else regarding the author of the study you offered:


LadyEowyn
Posted 10/05/2009

Don't forget to mention that Neil Z. Miller is also the director of ThinkTwice.com and publisher of the New Atlantean Press and who has no background in epidemiology, infectious disease, public health...in fact, his only degree is in psychology (that I can find) and I can't find if that's a BA or MA.

Who is Neil Z. Miller? He offers no posted credentials, no biography. On one hand he discounts experts who won't take responsibility, but the cites other experts who you are supposed to trust - based on his say-so?

.....nice little compilation that addresses some of the misinformation commonly spread by anti-vaccinationists:

http://antiantivax.flurf.net/

....a good list of questionable sources of information and an outline of the criteria used to determine their inclusion in said list (check 'M' for Medical Veritas):

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/nonrecorg.html
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Some of the Mothers Said



Joined: 01 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As luck would have it, there has been a radio program devoted to this issue aired last night. It's centered on the Swine Flu vaccine. Finally some people who know what they are talking about!
(At the moment you have to download the entire program, but you can skip through the "Nuclear Fusion" discussion to the second half of the show on vaccines. I'm sure there will be a separate download link for that story on the same page later on.)

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/latenightlive/


Guests

George J. Annas
Edward R. Utley Professor of Health Law, Chairman of Health Law Department at the Boston University School of Public Health.

Steve Hambelton
Vice-president of the Australian Medical Association

Julian Savalescu
Uehiro Professor of Practical Ethics at the University of Oxford, Fellow of St Cross College, Oxford, Director of the Oxford Uehiro Centre for Practical Ethics.

Thanks for the nice links OculisOrbis
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So are you saying Dr. Russell Blaylock doesn't know what he's talking about?

http://www.wnho.net/vaccine_coverup.htm


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14618

Dispelling Vaccination Myths with Truths

Myth No. 1: Vaccines are safe

Under the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Reporting System) was established. Annually, it reports about 11,000 serious vaccine reactions, including up to 200 deaths and many more permanent disabilities.

Far more alarming is the following;

-- the FDA estimates that only 1% of serious adverse reactions are reported;

-- CDC says it's 10%;

-- medical school students testified before Congress that they're told not to report these incidents;

-- according to the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC), only one in 40 New York doctors reported adverse vaccine reactions or deaths;

-- international studies show vaccines cause up to 10,000 US SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) deaths annually, and at least half of them are from vaccines;

-- another study determined that 3000 US children die annually from vaccines;

-- poor reporting in America suggests that annual adverse vaccine reactions, in fact, number from 100,000 - one million;

Here's a video that graphically shows what D.D. was talking about:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6696666502913965744#


Last edited by some waygug-in on Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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EH



Joined: 20 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My own experience supports that, waygug-in.

I talked to my kids' pediatrician in the US and asked how many times in her multi-decade career she had reported adverse vaccine reactions to the VAERS. She said never. So I asked whether any parents had ever reported vaccine reactions to her. Her reply was that, yes, parents frequently reported adverse vaccine reactions to her but that she did not believe that vaccines could cause adverse reactions, and that the parents were (*all*) just noticing illness that had nothing to do with the vaccines administered. So because she did not believe the parents, she did not forward the parental reports to the VAERS, ever.

Clearly, some children get sick for reasons that have nothing to do with vaccines. But if pediatricians' faith in the infallibility of vaccines makes them not participate in the adverse reaction reporting system, then that skews the data and leads to other people (like some on this thread...?) mistakenly thinking that vaccines are the one medical intervention which is appropriate for all people under all circumstances.
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OculisOrbis



Joined: 17 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some waygug-in wrote:
So are you saying Dr. Russell Blaylock doesn't know what he's talking about?


I didn't, but I will - yes, he is a danger to people who put their trust in his advice.

http://www.1800special.com/
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Some of the Mothers Said



Joined: 01 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.1800special.com/

HAHAHAHAHA "Brain Repair Formula!"

Man! It's like Dr. Phil and his "Shape It Up, Woo Woo" supplements.
I wonder if the FTC will shut down Mr. Bubbles and his "Brain Repair Formula" as well?
People actually give money to this guy? A parasite on fear.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you can't counter any of the evidence he brings forward, the best you can do is make fun of him.

Typical.
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OculisOrbis



Joined: 17 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didnt think it was necessary to provide further evidence towards lack of credibility for a person who endorses such a product.

If people care to make their own decisions regarding that, I hope they take a look at his CV posted in the articles section of his website. In approx. the last 30 years, he has not had anything printed in any kind of credible publication nor has he been associated with an organization that could be considered unbiased or rational.

I, once again, refer to http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/nonrecorg.html for some basic criteria to consider when attempting to determine credibility of an organization or publication.

.............Further links and quote regarding Blaylock's questionable credibility:

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=26247784&sort=whole

At 7:05 PM, Anonymous HCN said...

Egads... I just noticed someone left a link to "Blaylock"!!!

Russell Blaylock may have once upon a time been a real physician, but now he mostly writes scaremongering stories and sells supplements in a strip mall.

On his website he used to claim to be on the faculty of the medical school at Ole Miss (Univ. of Mississippi), but whenever anyone checked the school's website (it is actually www.olemiss.edu) his name was missing. Someone actually alerted the school of this man claiming to be on their faculty and they sent him a nice legal letter to stop.

He no longer claims to be on the faculty at Ole Miss (but other websites still claim so), he now does guest lectures at a private religious school (www.belhaven.edu). The head of the biology department there is an advocate of "creation science", http://www.belhaven.edu/Belhaven/faculty/AlChestnut.pdf .

By the way have you checked the quality of articles at http://www.newstarget.com/ ? I checked the "worthy websites" on the right hand side of the page and noticed that not only does it include the less than reputable "Generation Rescue", a couple ambulance chasing law firm websites, the ridiculous Bolen Report, but also the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (a $cientology anti psychiatry group).


Last edited by OculisOrbis on Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And all the other doctors in the video link I posted must be all wrong then too, and all the studies they cited must be bogus?


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6696666502913965744#
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