Korean Job Discussion Forums

[OculisOrbis]

You asked about Blaylock, I answered. If people would like to make informed choices about the other physicians that you have grouped together with the esteemed Dr. Blaylock, they are welcome to do that. I, however, now consider your credibility to be in question by providing such unreliable authority as your source of good information and will not be doing so. Perhaps if you had chosen a different candidate to spearhead your arguments, things might be different.....

[some waygug-in]

Nice bit of question avoidance.

So are all these doctors wrong too?

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/articles4.html

[OculisOrbis]

http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/163/ = another source discredited.

I now leave it up to others to investigate on their own. As stated earlier, I can no longer consider you reliable on this subject. Thanks, it was fun playing.

Sorry, one more thing to add because it was just too good to not pass along:

http://www.whale.to/m/map.html

Medical (Allopathic) Mind Control
[back] Allopathy Mind Control quotes

"Information control is mind control."--Dick Sutphen

[The methods used by the Allopathic Medical Monopoly to suppress the truth and get away with covert-medical Fascism. The key is to have all information come out through pseudo-Authorities via the Media, but to hide the fact that they are all pharma Shills. This consists mostly of Lies and Fear mongering. The propaganda is then easily embedded with the strength of a Hypnotic command, with a second groupthink ring fence, based on the religious mind control programme, known as The Church of Allopathy, made easy by the fact most people are atheists and in chronic fear i.e. stage 1 & 2 spiritual, (where most of the Pyjama people are) with the stage 3 academic types being very easy to hypnotise (1), and with the most to lose if the system crashed: 'You have to understand that most of these people are not ready to be unplugged and many are so hopelessly dependent on the system, they will fight to protect it.' (see). The system itself (Fascism) is run by psychopaths, so it is no surprise there is an even more covert agenda going on suppressing alternative doctors and medicine, easily shown with cancer and vitamin C.]

Thanks for that website. I haven't laughed so hard in long time....and while perusing the site, I barely scratched the surface of the wealth of 'information' they offer.

[some waygug-in]

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2911318




Five die after seasonal flu vaccination

October 15, 2009
Five people have died after being vaccinated against seasonal influenza since the nation�s health authority began providing free shots on the first day of this month.

[OculisOrbis]

How many people died today after getting out bed? Would they have lived if they didn't?

I think you're confusing correlation and causation.

[some waygug-in]

Well, I hope you are right.


But I'd rather take my chances with the flu than the vaccine.

http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/

[OculisOrbis]

http://emsnews.wordpress.com/2009/09/01/beware-of-quack-websites-claiming-vaccinations-are-dangerous/

[EH]

There are, of course, some non-quack websites that also point to the need for caution in administering vaccines.

I'm especially interested in eczema, asthma, and allergies (atopy) so that is the issue I focus on, though there are certainly other concerns related to vaccines. If you care (don't we all have something better to do... sigh... I probably should let this Dave's thread go...) you might check out this review by the Lancet titled "Vaccination and autoimmune disease: what is the evidence?"
http://image.thelancet.com/extras/02art9340web.pdf.

The conclusions reached by those reviewers seem to indicate there are a few well-documented cases of vaccinations being directly related with development of autoimmune conditions, there are a few instances of natural (wild/non-vaccine related) infections leading to *decreased* atopy, and there are many unanswered questions. That is to say: even top medical authorities with all the relevant studies in front of them cannot rule out vaccinations as a source of atopy.

Personally, I have viewed a huge number of studies that conclude vaccinations are perfectly safe in every way, but so far I have not seen *any* that base those conclusions on long-term data. Studies tend to run for a few weeks, or a few months at most. A year is a really long study. Yet we all know that chronic health conditions can take a long time to develop. One study decided that arthritis was no more prevalent in the vaccinated group than in the unvaccinated group--yet the study did not even last a year past the vaccination date! I mean, really! How many young folks do you know with arthritis?!? The condition is much more common among the elderly, yet they did not wait for the study participants to become elderly to see whether vaccination vs. non-vaccination had any long-term effects. One study that holds some promise is the KOALA developmental cohort, which is starting to yield some preliminary data. But so far it's still really short term and we'll have to wait to know more. Bottom line? Vaccine safety data--REAL safety data that don't fall silent after a few weeks--are missing in the literature. We know that vaccines don't *immediately* kill or seriously injure most recipients. We do not know much else.

-EH

EXTRA: For the nerds like me out there, some more studies that indicate unanswered questions about vaccinations and atopy:

Pediatr Allergy Immunol. 2008 Feb;19(1):46-52. Epub 2007 Dec 11.
Reported pertussis infection and risk of atopy in 8- to 12-yr-old vaccinated and non-vaccinated children.
Bernsen RM, Nagelkerke NJ, Thijs C, van der Wouden JC.

Department of General Practice, Erasmus MC - University Medical Center Rotterdam, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. [email protected]

Pertussis infection has been suspected to be a potential causal factor in the development of atopic disease because of the effect of pertussis immunization on specific IgE antibodies. Although several studies found a positive association between pertussis infection and atopic disorders, this relationship has not yet been studied in a population stratified by vaccination status. To assess the association between pertussis infection and atopic disorders in pertussis-unvaccinated children and in pertussis-vaccinated children. Using data from a previously conducted study on the relationship between the diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis-(inactivated) poliomyelitis vaccination in the first year of life and atopic disorders, the study population of 1872 8-12 yr old was divided into children pertussis-unvaccinated and children pertussis-vaccinated in the first year of life. Within each group, the association between pertussis infection and atopic disorders (both as reported by the parents) was assessed. In the unvaccinated group, there were no significant associations between pertussis infection and atopic disorders. In the vaccinated group, all associations between pertussis infection and atopic disorders were positive, the associations with asthma [odds ratio (OR) = 2.24, 95% confidence interval (CI(95%)): 1.36-3.70], hay fever (OR = 2.35, CI(95%): 1.46-3.77) and food allergy (OR = 2.68, CI(95%): 1.48-4.85) being significant. There was a positive association between pertussis infection and atopic disorders in the pertussis vaccinated group only. From the present study, it cannot be concluded whether this association is causal or due to reverse causation.




Lancet. 1999 May 1;353(9163):1485-8.

Comment in:
Lancet. 1999 May 1;353(9163):1457-8.

Atopy in children of families with an anthroposophic lifestyle.
Alm JS, Swartz J, Lilja G, Scheynius A, Pershagen G.

Department of Laboratory Medicine, Karolinska Institute and Hospital, Stockholm, Sweden. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Increased prevalence of atopic disorders in children may be associated with changes in types of childhood infections, vaccination programmes, and intestinal microflora. People who follow an anthroposophic way of life use antibiotics restrictively, have few vaccinations, and their diet usually contains live lactobacilli, which may affect the intestinal microflora. We aimed to study the prevalence of atopy in children from anthroposophic families and the influence of an anthroposophic lifestyle on atopy prevalence. METHODS: In a cross-sectional study, 295 children aged 5-13 years at two anthroposophic (Steiner) schools near Stockholm, Sweden, were compared with 380 children of the same age at two neighbouring schools in terms of history of atopic and infectious diseases, use of antibiotics and vaccinations, and social and environmental variables. Skin-*beep* tests were done for 13 common allergens, and we took blood samples from children and their parents for analysis of allergen-specific serum IgE-antibodies. FINDINGS: At the Steiner schools, 52% of the children had had antibiotics in the past, compared with 90% in the control schools. 18% and 93% of children, respectively, had had combined immunisation against measles, mumps, and rubella, and 61% of the children at the Steiner schools had had measles. Fermented vegetables, containing live lactobacilli, were consumed by 63% of the children at Steiner schools, compared with 4.5% at the control schools. Skin-*beep* tests and blood tests showed that the children from Steiner schools had lower prevalence of atopy than controls (odds ratio 0.62 [95% CI 0.43-0.91]). There was an inverse relation between the number of characteristic features of an anthroposophic lifestyle and risk of atopy (p for trend=0.01). INTERPRETATION: Prevalence of atopy is lower in children from anthroposophic families than in children from other families. Lifestyle factors associated with anthroposophy may lessen the risk of atopy in childhood.




J Autoimmun. 2000 Feb;14(1):1-10.
Vaccination and autoimmunity-'vaccinosis': a dangerous liaison?
Shoenfeld Y, Aron-Maor A.

Department of Internal Medicine B, Sheba Medical Center, Tel Hashomer, Israel. [email protected]

The question of a connection between vaccination and autoimmune illness (or phenomena) is surrounded by controversy. A heated debate is going on regarding the causality between vaccines, such as measles and anti-hepatitis B virus (HBV), and multiple sclerosis (MS). Brain antibodies as well as clinical symptoms have been found in patients vaccinated against those diseases. Other autoimmune illnesses have been associated with vaccinations. Tetanus toxoid, influenza vaccines, polio vaccine, and others, have been related to phenomena ranging from autoantibodies production to full-blown illness (such as rheumatoid arthritis (RA)). Conflicting data exists regarding also the connection between autism and vaccination with measles vaccine.So far only one controlled study of an experimental animal model has been published, in which the possible causal relation between vaccines and autoimmune findings has been examined: in healthy puppies immunized with a variety of commonly given vaccines, a variety of autoantibodies have been documented but no frank autoimmune illness was recorded. The findings could also represent a polyclonal activation (adjuvant reaction). The mechanism (or mechanisms) of autoimmune reactions following immunization has not yet been elucidated. One of the possibilities is molecular mimicry; when a structural similarity exists between some viral antigen (or other component of the vaccine) and a self-antigen. This similarity may be the trigger to the autoimmune reaction. Other possible mechanisms are discussed.Even though the data regarding the relation between vaccination and autoimmune disease is conflicting, it seems that some autoimmune phenomena are clearly related to immunization (e.g. Guillain-Barre syndrome).The issue of the risk of vaccination remains a philosophical one, since to date the advantages of this policy have not been refuted, while the risk for autoimmune disease has not been irrevocably proved. We discuss the pros and cons of this issue (although the temporal relationship (i.e. always 2-3 months following immunization) is impressive).