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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:34 am Post subject: Excuses wearing thin for Obama |
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http://www.suntimes.com/news/huntley/1834209,CST-EDT-HUNT20.article
Read the article. Post your thoughts.
I agree with the author. Its interesting that Obama accuses Fox News of being a Republican mouthpiece, meanwhile he says nothing when CNN and MSNBC rally to his defense. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:46 am Post subject: |
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After the largest financial crash since the GD, what have they done? The fraud in the system is massive. See William Black on this (lots of videos and articles).
What has Hope and Change done? What laws/regulations have they passed? Who have they thrown in jail?
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638
His administration is completely captured by Goldmans and the rest of the financial services industry. It's pathetic.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice
http://www.bearishnews.com/post/2449
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George Soros, chairman of Soros Fund Management:
Yes. (in response to Michael Panzner�s question: Has Wall Street captured the U.S. government, as Simon Johnson argued?). |
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| I agree with the author. Its interesting that Obama accuses Fox News of being a Republican mouthpiece, meanwhile he says nothing when CNN and MSNBC rally to his defense. |
This is just a distraction. The media isn't "right" or "left". It isn't really Republican or Democrat (as those are merely masks for corporate interests). The media represents their owners.
We have to look to the Wise Latina to solve this:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125314088285517643.html |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Next week is my TWO-YEAR anniversary of "I told you so." |
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Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Excuses wearing thin for Obama |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Its interesting that Obama accuses Fox News of being a Republican mouthpiece, meanwhile he says nothing when CNN and MSNBC rally to his defense. |
I get that MSNBC is pretty much just a mirror image of Fox News, but the thing is not many people watch them. And I'm at least skeptical as to whether you can consider CNN biased in the way either of those other two programs are. The reality is that the liberal sympathetic masses are following the Daily Show and Colbert Report for mainstream stuff and hitting up internet sources for everything else. I also think it's telling that conservative attempts to create comedy news counterparts have been a total failure (stick with me for a second here, because I'm going to take this beyond "liberal" and "conservative"). This following passage stuck out for me:
"But that's harmless compared to the virulent campaign against Obama critics carried out by the denizens of MSNBC. Its Obama acolytes seek to demonize opponents of Obama's policies by focusing on most marginal corners of right-wing politics like, for example, the "birthers" who deny Obama is a natural born citizen. The larger scheme is to imply Obama critics are racists."
If it's true that the majority of Obama critics don't buy into the Fox news tea party/birther stuff, then why are the majority of Obama/liberal supporters not assumed to be similarly distinct from the MSNBC stuff, which, out of my many liberal sympathizing acquaintances, not one of them is a viewer? My problem with believing this "right wing as we know it is a smear caricature designed to redirect our attention from the real criticisms" argument is that Fox News does have an amazingly large amount of viewers. Also, the massive success of the liberal sympathizing Daily Show franchise taken with the total failure of Fox News to produce a comedy program on par with them tells me that there really isn't this symmetrical relationship between the two main parties that everyone assumes is there.
The one thing this division is useful for is in representing the cultural split between the large population of "anachronistic for a developed nation" religious fundamentalists and most everyone else, the "everyone else" group having been co-opted to some degree by the Democrats rather than by reasonable fiscal conservatives, who lost their perceived connection to "everyone else" when the Republicans cast their lot with the religious right.
So this leaves reasonable and socially well adjusted fiscal conservatives, moderates, libertarians, etc. shouldered with the negative connotations of the fundies who became associated in the general public's mind with anyone who isn't either somewhat sympathetic with the Democrats or else apathetic to the entire system because of the religious right/fiscal conservative symbiotic relationship that makes up the Republican base. Libertarians in particular seem to be more common recently (both online and in real life among friends of mine) and are striving to keep themselves from being dragged along with the baggage of the right wing image, although it is likely that for them to gain power they will be going through the Republican party, which is how reasonable fiscal conservatives in the past got saddled with the agenda of the religious right in the first place.
Anyway, I would claim that the alleged fringe fanatics getting all the attention as Obama critics actually deserve that attention because they do comprise a large portion of Obama's opposition and they will have an impact as voters whom otherwise reasonable candidates will probably seek to win over in challenging the Democrats (which can only realistically be done through the Republican party anyway). I don't personally ever vote or full on "support" any politicians, and even if I did, I wouldn't be supporting any of the many drug fascists (Obama still being one of them despite his concession on medical marijuana states' rights), but just because my views are clearly more rational than screaming about the guy being Kenyan and wanting to euthanize my elderly relatives doesn't mean the latter stuff should just be ignored given at least a couple million Americans probably identify with it.
Last edited by Street Magic on Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Excuses wearing thin for Obama |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
http://www.suntimes.com/news/huntley/1834209,CST-EDT-HUNT20.article
Read the article. Post your thoughts.
I agree with the author. Its interesting that Obama accuses Fox News of being a Republican mouthpiece, meanwhile he says nothing when CNN and MSNBC rally to his defense. |
CNN and MSNBC don't rally to his defense on anywhere near the same scale that Fox News acts as a Republican mouthpiece. The two aren't even comparable. |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Calling MSNBC a liberal mirror of Fox is very blatant political correctness. Conservatives whine constantly about the Fairness Doctrine (that will never be implemented again) yet virtually demand de facto equal time/consideration for conservatives in all media outlets. MSNBC gives Scarborough 3 hours a day, which is much more than Fox has ever been able to say.
Most importantly though, it's important to distinguish the things that MSNBC commentators say vs. what Fox commentators say: MSNBC isn't constantly questioning a President's place of birth, religion, fearmongering about FEMA death camps, etc. Glenn Beck, I'm looking at you.
Stop calling Fox equivalent to MSNBC/CNN/whatever. They've gotten so ridiculous that it's become appropriate for public figures to ignore them. Stop with the laughable political correctness on this issue. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Tapper: It�s escaped none of our notice that the White House has decided in the last few weeks to declare one of our sister organizations �not a news organization� and to tell the rest of us not to treat them like a news organization. Can you explain why it�s appropriate for the White House to decide that a news organization is not one -
(Crosstalk)
Gibbs: Jake, we render, we render an opinion based on some of their coverage and the fairness that, the fairness of that coverage.
Tapper: But that�s a pretty sweeping declaration that they are �not a news organization.� How are they any different from, say-
Gibbs: ABC -
Tapper: ABC. MSNBC. Univision. I mean how are they any different?
Gibbs: You and I should watch sometime around 9 o�clock tonight. Or 5 o�clock this afternoon.
Tapper: I�m not talking about their opinion programming or issues you have with certain reports. I�m talking about saying thousands of individuals who work for a media organization, do not work for a �news organization� -- why is that appropriate for the White House to say?
Gibbs: That�s our opinion
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/10/todays-qs-for-os-wh-10202009.html
Fox news drives lefty libs absolutely batty and I find it a little bit perplexing and somewhat amusing. The left being champions of free speech and all, but somehow Fox News just seems to show how thin skinned some on the left are, particularly those in the Obama Admin.
Fox News, being what it is, whether you want to call it tabloid journalism or a news organization, still does much better in terms of ratings than the Keith Olbermann/Rachel Madow MSNBC brigade could ever hope to. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| DIsbell wrote: |
Calling MSNBC a liberal mirror of Fox is very blatant political correctness. Conservatives whine constantly about the Fairness Doctrine (that will never be implemented again) yet virtually demand de facto equal time/consideration for conservatives in all media outlets. MSNBC gives Scarborough 3 hours a day, which is much more than Fox has ever been able to say.
Most importantly though, it's important to distinguish the things that MSNBC commentators say vs. what Fox commentators say: MSNBC isn't constantly questioning a President's place of birth, religion, fearmongering about FEMA death camps, etc. Glenn Beck, I'm looking at you.
Stop calling Fox equivalent to MSNBC/CNN/whatever. They've gotten so ridiculous that it's become appropriate for public figures to ignore them. Stop with the laughable political correctness on this issue. |
So, what's your point? Obviously Fox news is complete garbage and not to be taken seriously. Yet you are trying to suggest that MSNBC and CNN aren't complete garbage? I've got news for you: they are. Trying to compare them is about as asinine as comparing Republicans to Democrats; they're all a bunch of crooks working for the same establishment, controlled by bankers. Get it? They're all scum.
(hope that wasn't too politically correct for you  ) |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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MSNBC and CNN certainly do have their problems, but saying they are equally as awful as Fox is nothing but a laughable attempt at being politically correct.
also, this is funny:
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| The left being champions of free speech and all... |
Is anyone on the left talking about passing legislation that would ban Fox from doing what it does?
Nope. Strawman. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
| Fox news drives lefty libs absolutely batty and I find it a little bit perplexing and somewhat amusing. The left being champions of free speech and all, but somehow Fox News just seems to show how thin skinned some on the left are, particularly those in the Obama Admin. |
You can be for free speech while still condemning blatant, agenda-driven liars, Pluto. I don't deny for a second many people on the Left are "thin skinned" when face with hypocritical misportrayals of reality. Nor should they be.
| Pluto wrote: |
| Fox News, being what it is, whether you want to call it tabloid journalism or a news organization, still does much better in terms of ratings than the Keith Olbermann/Rachel Madow MSNBC brigade could ever hope to. |
Which just helps back up exactly what the White House is saying: it's not really a news organization at all. This is why it does so much better than actual news organizations in terms of ratings: it's providing something they aren't, and that something is pro-conservative propaganda. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Which one is a news organization? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:05 am Post subject: |
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http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/10/16/ellen-ratner-obama-white-house-fox-news/
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Ignore your issues with Fox News Channel unless something that's being reported on a news segment is wrong. Ignore pretty much everything that is being said on the opinion side as it is just opinion. The White House does not make a habit of addressing the various protests in front of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue so why should it spend valuable time and energy addressing opinion shows? -- By addressing your beefs with talk radio and talk television shows that you think are slanted against you, you just give them more and more legitimacy.
I have been working for Fox News as a confirmed liberal contributor for twelve years.
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| I know from the inside of the Fox News Channel operation that they are clear about the dividing line between reporting and opinion. |
They don't like to mix the work of reporters and the show hosts nor should they. I sit at the White House with Fox's White House reporters and they have asked the same questions as other reporters -- both during the Bush administration and the Obama administration. |
This writer makes a good point. What's people's beef with Foxnews? Is it the actual news they report, or the opinion shows they air (ala Bill O Reilly).
Because, clearly one is news, and the other is entertainment. Just because both are shown on the same channel, doesn't mean you can lump them all together and say its not a REAL news network. Watch an actual Fox NEWS segment. Do the reporters there take swipes at Obama?
Opinions are opinions and news is news. The White House and Obama are confusing the two. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| This writer makes a good point. What's people's beef with Foxnews? Is it the actual news they report, or the opinion shows they air (ala Bill O Reilly). |
It's the way they actively distort the news they report. Opinion shows are just that: opinion shows. The fact that Fox News' opinion shows happen to be overwhelmingly conservative says a lot about the network, but if their propaganda was limited to those shows, at least your point would be hitting home. Their propaganda is not limited to those shows. Here are some examples.
Fox's propaganda is not limited to it's opinion shows; not by a long shot. They've gone beyond what other news networks do, beyond merely being biased, and into outright propaganda and knowing lies to further their political agenda. I see no reason why the White House should take their rubbish lying down; calling Fox News out for what it is is perfectly acceptable.
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Opinions are opinions and news is news. The White House and Obama are confusing the two. |
No, unfortunately, Fox News is confusing the two. |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Fox's propagandized coverage of teh recent Tea Parties is a good example of their awful attempts at passing off opinions as news, as is the ridiculous amount of airtime given to birthers on their news programs. |
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