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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:19 pm Post subject: Conference to criminalize war begins |
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Not that it will accomplish much, but it is a nice idea anyway.
KL Peace Conference to Criminalise War: 7 Days to Launch
Posted: 2009/10/21
From: Mathaba
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia (Mathaba) An international popular conference and exhibition 'Expose War Crimes - Criminalise War: Failure of International Law" is to take place in Kuala Lumpur, the capital city of Malaysia, in under 7 days time.
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In recent history in particular the United States and Britain have engaged in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan under the guise of fighting terrorism, whilst deliberately misinforming their populations about threats and with ulterior motives that include the control of oil and water supplies.
Last edited by bacasper on Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Why criminalize war, it's just a symptom of the actual problems: soldiers willing to kill on government orders. Politicians would be impotent without soldiers to act upon their commands.
Criminalize soldiers. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
Why criminalize war, it's just a symptom of the actual problems: soldiers willing to kill on government orders. Politicians would be impotent without soldiers to act upon their commands.
Criminalize soldiers. |
And how would you enforce this without soldiers? Gonna use police on soldiers? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| shifter2009 wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
Why criminalize war, it's just a symptom of the actual problems: soldiers willing to kill on government orders. Politicians would be impotent without soldiers to act upon their commands.
Criminalize soldiers. |
And how would you enforce this without soldiers? Gonna use police on soldiers? |
How are you going to enforce criminalization of war without war? I'm just saying if we're going to talk about things like this, we may as well talk about the real cause, not the symptom. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Kellog-Briand. 1920s and 1930s.
Clearly, the Italians, the Japanese, and the Germans obeyed it.
These are foolish, idealistic gestures. You guys should stay with charging at windmills, Bacasper. At least you only hurt yourselves in that nonsense. Why force the rest of us to charge at them with you? |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| What an unbelievably ridiculous proposition. The countries participating in this kangaroo court should be invaded. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| shifter2009 wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
Why criminalize war, it's just a symptom of the actual problems: soldiers willing to kill on government orders. Politicians would be impotent without soldiers to act upon their commands.
Criminalize soldiers. |
And how would you enforce this without soldiers? Gonna use police on soldiers? |
How are you going to enforce criminalization of war without war? I'm just saying if we're going to talk about things like this, we may as well talk about the real cause, not the symptom. |
Suppose they gave a war and nobody came?
| Gopher wrote: |
Kellog-Briand. 1920s and 1930s.
Clearly, the Italians, the Japanese, and the Germans obeyed it.
These are foolish, idealistic gestures. You guys should stay with charging at windmills, Bacasper. At least you only hurt yourselves in that nonsense. Why force the rest of us to charge at them with you? |
So it is too much to ask for you to even agree to theoretical ideals?
From South Pacific:
| Quote: |
You've got to have a dream
If you don't have a dream
How you gonna have a dream come true? |
| djsmnc wrote: |
| What an unbelievably ridiculous proposition. The countries participating in this kangaroo court should be invaded. |
Martin Luther King, Jr. had a dream of non-violence while ironically meeting a violent end. This brings up the dilemma: how can non-violent guys/countries ever prevail if the violent guys/countries will just beat them up whenever they feel like it? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| shifter2009 wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
Why criminalize war, it's just a symptom of the actual problems: soldiers willing to kill on government orders. Politicians would be impotent without soldiers to act upon their commands.
Criminalize soldiers. |
And how would you enforce this without soldiers? Gonna use police on soldiers? |
How are you going to enforce criminalization of war without war? I'm just saying if we're going to talk about things like this, we may as well talk about the real cause, not the symptom. |
Suppose they gave a war and nobody came? |
Sounds great. Key to achieving that is the abolition of soldiers. Soldiers will always come, that's their job. |
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mole
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| shifter2009 wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
Why criminalize war, it's just a symptom of the actual problems: soldiers willing to kill on government orders. Politicians would be impotent without soldiers to act upon their commands.
Criminalize soldiers. |
And how would you enforce this without soldiers? Gonna use police on soldiers? |
I'm in, betting on soldiers to win handily. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
Why criminalize war, it's just a symptom of the actual problems: soldiers willing to kill on government orders. Politicians would be impotent without soldiers to act upon their commands.
Criminalize soldiers. |
Hahahah, what?
Are you being ironic, sarcastic or facetious or something?
I fear you're not being any of the above, so would you care to elaborate?
Personally, I would prefer to abolish the part of government that sanctions war, but you probably knew I was going to say that, anyway. I enjoy the yin and yang of our personas. You blame nothing on governments and I blame everything. Fascinating. |
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kotakji
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Kellog-Briand. 1920s and 1930s.
Clearly, the Italians, the Japanese, and the Germans obeyed it.
These are foolish, idealistic gestures. You guys should stay with charging at windmills, Bacasper. At least you only hurt yourselves in that nonsense. Why force the rest of us to charge at them with you? |
Bah you beat me to it. I had my own little diatribe on that little pact to rattle on about!  |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
Why criminalize war, it's just a symptom of the actual problems: soldiers willing to kill on government orders. Politicians would be impotent without soldiers to act upon their commands.
Criminalize soldiers. |
Recruits do not generally join up because they want to wage war. Perhaps some do, but I am guessing it is a small minority. In fact, it was a soldier who said, "War is hell."
Most join because they need a job and/or soldiering is glorified and seen as something honorable, or perhaps a family tradition. In fact, some of us remember the time when it was a crime NOT to become a soldier, i.e. to evade the draft. You cannot very well criminalize soldiering while the government is actively recruiting people to do it.
Rather than criminalization, if just no one signed up, and then all draftees refused to serve, that might accomplish your goal.
But what do I know, I never served. Perhaps Gopher or anyone else who served will tell us his reasons for doing so and/or what he knows of the motivations of others who did. |
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Triban
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: Suwon Station
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
Suppose they gave a war and nobody came?
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Do you remember the vikings? They raped and pillaged even with no opposition. That's what happens when someone gives a war and nobody comes. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Triban wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Suppose they gave a war and nobody came?
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Do you remember the vikings? They raped and pillaged even with no opposition. That's what happens when someone gives a war and nobody comes. |
Sounds like fun. Been thinking about giving Masan a good ol viking raid actually...... :  |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Under what circumstances could war and warriors be effectively criminalized? And other than the lack of war, what other social consequences might follow from these circumstances?
I suggest that it could only be effectively criminalized once the world had reached near perfect homogeneity. Differences in culture, religion, race, language, class, values, and, in general, perspective would have to be dead and buried. Comparatively vapid differences in opinion would still exist; for example, A might like cherry flavoured chewing gum, while B prefers watermelon.
This would not be a world full of noble, passionate idealists. On the contrary, people would be dull, cowardly, and herdlike to the greatest degree. The very idea that anything could be so important as to cause people to fight would be incomprehensible. Along with the threat of war would vanish what one might call manly virtues: valour, courage, strength, and the like. People do not realize how seeming opposites depend on each other: Once the manly virtues were gone, abolished, the tenderer virtues like mercy, charity, and LOVE would become as shadows. The people would still speak of them but would not feel them, the people would forget what they once meant, and they would likely confuse love with feelings of comfort and security. Also, Joy would probably go too.
Do you really want the PEOPLE to lose their LOVE and JOY? Vote WAR. |
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